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Thread: Crazy Idea

  1. #1
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Crazy Idea

    I think it is safe to assume that most Reds fans have given up on the teams chances to make the playoffs this year. I have not, but I never do until the math makes it necessary, just like I always predict the Reds will win 95 games and win the World Series at the start of every season.

    That said, I think it might be smart for the Reds to shop Cordero. This is not because I think Cordero is not valuable, but because I think he is very valuable. At the trading deadline, a bunch of team will be looking for a closer. Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, just to name some obvious ones. Look at what Gagne got the Rangers last year, a starting RF, a fourth starter and a stud outfield prospect. And Cordero will help a team win more than Gagne.

    The big negative is his salary, which might drive his price down some, but at the deadline, when a team really needs a closer, they usually overpay.

    I am confident that Burton or Bray can take over the closer role, and the Reds have a bunch of great bullpen arms almost ready in Roenicke, Manuel and Herrera to set up. I also think the Reds could consider moving Bailey to the pen just like Gagne and Paplebon. He is very similar to them, in that he throws hard, but has a hard time concentrating for a whole game. I think he has the bulldog mindset of a closer, which might be hurting him as a starter.

    Cordero was a good signing, if the Reds were to contend this year, but the older he gets, the worse the signing will look. I think the Reds could get a solid CF, and/or catcher, and/or solid 4-5 starter, and/or top ten prospects for him. That would fill a lot of holes, and the Reds would save a lot of money.

    Just a thought.

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    Crazy, no. Brilliant, yes.

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    I would be all for it if the returns were right

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    I've said all along that I think we should and will end up shopping Cordero, especially with the way Burton is throwing. Burton will get a shot at closing for cheap.
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    Re: Crazy Idea

    I agree. CoCo has done nothing to make me sour on him. But the bullpen actually has guys ready to step into the closer's role. If the return were right, I'd be all for it.

    Let's just hope he doesn't implode too, like Arroyo did.
    Who's on first?

  7. #6
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    Re: Crazy Idea

    Doesn't he have a no-trade clause?

    Of course, nobody wants to play for a loser, and he hasn't been here long enough to get entrenched, so he might waive it.

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    If you look around the majors at competing teams, Boston, Tampa Bay, and the Yankees are all set with really good closers. The White Sox are doing well with Bobby Jenks. Minnesota has Joe Nathan and he's doing really well. Detroit could use an upgrade over Todd Jones (3.98 e.r.a., plus he's 40 years old), but I doubt they want to add anymore payroll, nor do they have any prospects left to trade. They'd have to give up guys at the major league level. So, I don't think I'd want to trade with them. The Angels have Fransisco Rodriguez doing very well for them. Oakland won't add payroll, so mark them off. Texas is above .500, but not really in contention. But if they were looking at next year, they really need an upgrade as CJ Wilson has been very mediocre to bad, and Guardado is old and just okay so far this year. Cordero would really give them a leg up for next year as their team continues to improve. Not sure who I'd want.........

    Phillies have a dominating Brad Lidge, so no match there. Marlins won't add payroll, and Gregg is doing pretty well for them in the closer's role anyway. Braves might be interested, as Smoltz has a tender arm, and their future closer, Peter Moylan is out for the season. Depends on if they want to add payroll and think they have a shot to catch the Phillies. Mets have Billy Wagner, enough said. Cubs have a dominant Kerry Wood.

    Crazy idea comes right here: Would you trade with St. Louis? Ryan Franklin has been closing for them with Isringhausen possibly out but stinking nonetheless, and has been mediocre at best. Hmmm.


    I seriously doubt the Brewers would trade to get Cordero back. I think pride would be involved.

    Arizona has Brandon Lyon closing and he has been solid with a 2.45 e.r.a.........but he is not a power pitcher and can't get you a K when you need it. Hmmm.

    Dodgers have 35 year old Saito closing for them. He has been solid, but his numbers are far worse than the past two years and you wonder if age is catching up to him. Would they be a trading partner? They still have time to catch 'Zona with some luck. Or maybe they load up for next year?

    I just don't see many trading partners. The idea I think is the best, because we have a history trading with them (Hamilton-Volquez), and they are on the cusp of maybe contending next year, is Texas. Who would we want from Texas?
    Who's on first?

  9. #8
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    Re: Crazy Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    Texas is above .500, but not really in contention. But if they were looking at next year, they really need an upgrade as CJ Wilson has been very mediocre to bad, and Guardado is old and just okay so far this year. Cordero would really give them a leg up for next year as their team continues to improve. Not sure who I'd want.........
    Teagarden.



    Crazy idea comes right here: Would you trade with St. Louis? Ryan Franklin has been closing for them with Isringhausen possibly out but stinking nonetheless, and has been mediocre at best. Hmmm.
    St. Louis was my first thought. It's not just Isringhausen, they're entire bullpen is bad (25th in bullpen ERA, blown 24 of 43 saves!). Franklin is like Weathers was for us, he's done OK, but he's not a real closer. His WHIP is 1.47 and he's blown 4 out of 14, even though his ERA is good.

    But using him as a closer takes away one of their only two good middle relievers (Franklin and McCellan).

    They also have ZERO lefties in the bullpen, so I'd package Cordero and Affeldt and see what I can get. Hell, I'd ship them every veteran reliever that's not a part of our long-term plans....Weathers, Affeldt, Lincoln, Merker. It might be a case where our trash really does have value to somebody. Their bullpen is that short-staffed.

    All of that + Homer Bailey for Colby Rasmus? How far has Bailey's stock dropped?
    Last edited by kpresidente; 06-28-2008 at 02:40 PM.

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    If you look around the majors at competing teams, Boston, Tampa Bay, and the Yankees are all set with really good closers. The White Sox are doing well with Bobby Jenks. Minnesota has Joe Nathan and he's doing really well. Detroit could use an upgrade over Todd Jones (3.98 e.r.a., plus he's 40 years old), but I doubt they want to add anymore payroll, nor do they have any prospects left to trade. They'd have to give up guys at the major league level. So, I don't think I'd want to trade with them. The Angels have Fransisco Rodriguez doing very well for them. Oakland won't add payroll, so mark them off. Texas is above .500, but not really in contention. But if they were looking at next year, they really need an upgrade as CJ Wilson has been very mediocre to bad, and Guardado is old and just okay so far this year. Cordero would really give them a leg up for next year as their team continues to improve. Not sure who I'd want.........

    Phillies have a dominating Brad Lidge, so no match there. Marlins won't add payroll, and Gregg is doing pretty well for them in the closer's role anyway. Braves might be interested, as Smoltz has a tender arm, and their future closer, Peter Moylan is out for the season. Depends on if they want to add payroll and think they have a shot to catch the Phillies. Mets have Billy Wagner, enough said. Cubs have a dominant Kerry Wood.

    Crazy idea comes right here: Would you trade with St. Louis? Ryan Franklin has been closing for them with Isringhausen possibly out but stinking nonetheless, and has been mediocre at best. Hmmm.


    I seriously doubt the Brewers would trade to get Cordero back. I think pride would be involved.

    Arizona has Brandon Lyon closing and he has been solid with a 2.45 e.r.a.........but he is not a power pitcher and can't get you a K when you need it. Hmmm.

    Dodgers have 35 year old Saito closing for them. He has been solid, but his numbers are far worse than the past two years and you wonder if age is catching up to him. Would they be a trading partner? They still have time to catch 'Zona with some luck. Or maybe they load up for next year?

    I just don't see many trading partners. The idea I think is the best, because we have a history trading with them (Hamilton-Volquez), and they are on the cusp of maybe contending next year, is Texas. Who would we want from Texas?
    Excellent analysis. That does sum up the market right now. But things change, teams go on hot streaks and new partners could be created.

    I also think that teams like the Angels, Dodgers, Arizona and Phillies could be interested in acquiring Cordero as a set up guy this year, and insurance as a closer for next year in case they don't re-sign their soon to be free agent closers.

    Anyway, regardless, I think it would be interesting to see what he could bring if he were shopped at the trading deadline.

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    lets ship out our good closer? Remember how many games we lost last year because we didnt have a good all around bullpen. Our pen has been very solid for a majority of this year. Why dont we just keep it as is and use it as one of our strengths. First and foremost we need hitting and we have enough prospects to acquire a big bat and don't need to trade CoCo, we will need him.

  12. #11
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    Re: Crazy Idea

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I think it is safe to assume that most Reds fans have given up on the teams chances to make the playoffs this year. I have not, but I never do until the math makes it necessary, just like I always predict the Reds will win 95 games and win the World Series at the start of every season.

    That said, I think it might be smart for the Reds to shop Cordero. This is not because I think Cordero is not valuable, but because I think he is very valuable. At the trading deadline, a bunch of team will be looking for a closer. Tampa Bay, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, Cleveland, just to name some obvious ones. Look at what Gagne got the Rangers last year, a starting RF, a fourth starter and a stud outfield prospect. And Cordero will help a team win more than Gagne.

    The big negative is his salary, which might drive his price down some, but at the deadline, when a team really needs a closer, they usually overpay.

    I am confident that Burton or Bray can take over the closer role, and the Reds have a bunch of great bullpen arms almost ready in Roenicke, Manuel and Herrera to set up. I also think the Reds could consider moving Bailey to the pen just like Gagne and Paplebon. He is very similar to them, in that he throws hard, but has a hard time concentrating for a whole game. I think he has the bulldog mindset of a closer, which might be hurting him as a starter.

    Cordero was a good signing, if the Reds were to contend this year, but the older he gets, the worse the signing will look. I think the Reds could get a solid CF, and/or catcher, and/or solid 4-5 starter, and/or top ten prospects for him. That would fill a lot of holes, and the Reds would save a lot of money.

    Just a thought.
    It's really not a terrible idea, but why would you want to?

    The Reds for the last several years have had a lot of mediocre pitchers down in the bullpen. Finally, they've a stable, top-shelf closer and you want to trade that?

    I agree that Jared Burton is closer's material in waiting. But by having both Burton and Cordero, the Reds have not one but two very good bullpen arms locked up the next few years. It's not worth trading Cordero when next year, there's a conceivable chance of the Reds contending with a successful offseason.

    I see what you're saying, and you make some very good points. However, the Reds finally have a foundation to build a good, (deep) bullpen with Cordero, Burton, Billy Bray and Gary Majewski. I'm not sure they will re-sign David Weathers, but nonetheless, there's at least some glimmering hope. I wouldn't be in a rush to put Burton at closer if there's already an elite guy at that position locked up for another three years. For now, the Reds are better by having Burton as the setup guy and Cordero as the closer.

  13. #12
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    Re: Crazy Idea

    If you feel strongly about these two things:
    1) Cordero has the closer's role solidified for the next 3 1/2 years, and
    2) You have quality relievers in the farm system that are not that far away in Roenicke, Herrera, Stewart etc.
    you might consider dangling Burton. Why Burton? For starters he is much more salary-friendly than Cordero. And a cheap, controllable closer-in-waiting blows the market wide open to more than just teams that are in contention this year. Teams that are shooting for 2009-2011 might salivate at the prospect of getting just such a potential closer. Teams in contention might be extremely willing to add such a pitcher since the cost is not as prohibitive. Additionally, having Burton aboard would also more easily allow a team to jettison an expensive closer over the winter. The more teams willing to bid on a player the better the return it seems to me. Just a thought.

    PS I am not advocating dealing Burton. But since we are thinking outside the box in this thread, I just thought I'd toss that tidbit onto the conversational fire.
    Last edited by texasdave; 06-28-2008 at 03:33 PM.

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    Things to remember about true closers, 1st they are few. 2nd, they have down years between good ones. 3rd, many are effective only 2-3 maybe somewhat a 4th year. If the Reds could get a decent return, I'd consider a trade. Largely because of Burton, and the likes of Roeneke et al in the wait. Someone said Texas as a potential interested party. Don't they have a couple of Catchers on the roster and more in the pipeline?

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    Re: Crazy Idea

    While I am open to dealing CoCo for the right return, while doing my research, it is very obvious that the reason there are so few trading partners with the teams in contention is because THE TEAMS IN CONTENTION HAVE GOOD CLOSERS. The thought did cross my mind that maybe we should keep him if we are to ever be in contention. I thought Cordero's contract was for 5 years, not 4.
    Who's on first?

  16. #15
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    Re: Crazy Idea

    I wouldn't be against it if we were to get a couple A+ prospects out of it. Cordero is the kind of player to demand that type of return. I think that Tampa could be the best trade partner, given their minor league depth.


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