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Thread: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

  1. #61
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Ask any alcohol counselor about triggers for relapses. My guess is going to bars thinking you can go without risk is one of them. Perhaps even the top one.
    I don't think Josh wears his addiction on his sleeve, he responds to the tremendous media demand for his story. But, I guess it sounds better to marginalize Josh as stupid and immature.
    No. I didn't mean that. Each person hs his won demons.

    Josh has to do what works for him. He maybe isn't as strong as my friend, which is OK. I just find it hard to hear the stories.
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  3. #62
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom Heffner View Post
    Hamilton's demons are the only reason I could justify trading him.
    He wouldn’t have played anyway in Cincinnati with Griffey in right, Dunn in left and under contract, while Baker and Patterson were slated to come in along with other Baker idols. The moving of position players to obtain pitching was a consistent theme of the former general manager’s of the Reds and other’s around the league.

    Poker Reese, Dmitri Young, Jose Guillen, Sean Casey, Pena, Kearns and Hamilton, being just some of the attempts to obtain pitching for a franchise that can ill afford the price of quality pitching.

  4. #63
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    He wouldn’t have played anyway in Cincinnati with Griffey in right, Dunn in left and under contract, while Baker and Patterson were slated to come in along with other Baker idols.
    No one knows if WK would have even offered Patterson a look if Josh were still in the fold, but I think saying JH wouldn't have played in Cincy is silly. He'd have been the CF until such time either he or someone else was moved.
    Last edited by OldXOhio; 07-08-2008 at 09:23 AM.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  5. #64
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    It wouldn't surprise me if Josh Hamilton is also a bit immature as well. I'm NOT saying that he is, just saying that I wouldn't be shocked if that was some of the problem in dealing with other players on the team. After watching some of his interviews you can see that he was a bit naive to the way baseball players expect others to act. I commend Josh for speaking about his addictions and being so honest about his problems. But it's somewhat code in the clubhouse to speak little about your private life and you have to earn the right to get the ovations/interview requests that Josh got. We all know how veterans act when a rookie gets out of hand in celebrating (Milledge). I think it's likely that many of these veterans were resentful of Josh. The fact that Josh Hamilton got a standing ovation in his first game was possibly odd to most of the players. With a roster of 25 changing players you are probably going to see some players that didn't understand the ovation. To me the whole treatment Josh Hamilton gets surprises me, but not necessarily in a negative way. I just don't like the way some people frame him as a hero. Just my two cents.

    Also you have to realize that baseball players aren't always living in the real world. Some of these guys have been spoiled their whole life and have no empathy for someone like Josh. They might have seen him as someone trying to con the public with his public persona. Honestly none of us know how Josh is in day to day life. Maybe some players just cringed or rolled their eyes when he rambled about Church everyday. Maybe they were jealous or maybe they know something about Josh that we don't.? Guess it really doesn't matter.
    If your points are truly the case, I much prefer the Hamilton type of athlete to those who believe they deserve all the attention. Any player who didn't appreciate Hamilton's reception by the fans needs to take a step back and realize that life's no all about their batting average. Besides Hamilton's struggles to overcome addictions, he's also a darn fine ballplayer whose ability alone should get him attention from the press.

    And we really don't know if players resented Hamilton speaking of his faith or not. Any discussion of that is merely conjecture at this point.

  6. #65
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    And we really don't know if players resented Hamilton speaking of his faith or not. Any discussion of that is merely conjecture at this point.
    Considering that his deep faith was one of the handful of very "public" things we know about Hamilton's lifestyle and that it seems to contrast with the "public" things we know about his teammates, I'd say it's more than conjecture.
    /r/reds

  7. #66
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted View Post
    Considering that his deep faith was one of the handful of very "public" things we know about Hamilton's lifestyle and that it seems to contrast with the "public" things we know about his teammates, I'd say it's more than conjecture.
    Until a player comes out and says "it was a problem," it's still conjecture on our part.

    Other clubhouses do quite well with unapologetic Christians. Matt Holliday, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, Brandon Webb, Jeff Franceour, Sean Casey, Craig Biggio, Todd Helton, Lance Berkman, Jeff Francoeur, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, all are Christians that are very well respected by their teammates.

    There are plenty of reasons why there should be tensions in the Reds clubhouse. An ownership change, several GMs, annual managerial changes, a reputation for being a lousy team, a long streak of losing seasons, and a LOT of uneasy fans. Fans don't need to play the part of Nero, looking for a "tension" scapegoat for why the team has underperformed.
    Last edited by durl; 07-08-2008 at 11:30 AM.

  8. #67
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    Until a player comes out and says "it was a problem," it's still conjecture on our part.

    Other clubhouses do quite well with unapologetic Christians. Matt Holliday, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, Brandon Webb, Jeff Franceour, Sean Casey, Craig Biggio, Todd Helton, Lance Berkman, Jeff Francoeur, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, all are Christians that are very well respected by their teammates.
    After seeing the two Hamilton interviews on ESPN last night, I'm still feeling confident about that "conjecture."

    Someday, one of his former teammates will write a book and reveal what it was like to be his teammate. Then we'll know for sure.
    Last edited by Unassisted; 07-15-2008 at 12:13 PM.
    /r/reds

  9. #68
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    I agree Unassisted.....I respect the guys faith....but it could be a little much for some other people who don't bring it up or wear on there sleeve all day long.

    But it works for him....and that is all that matters....just like it did for George Foster.

  10. #69
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Good thread from when Bradley became available last year.

    http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...milton+bradley

    I had mixed emotions watching Josh last night. I was very happy for him, but in hindsight I wish we could have somehow traded someone else for Volquez. Oh well.
    Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 07-15-2008 at 01:00 PM.

  11. #70
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    Until a player comes out and says "it was a problem," it's still conjecture on our part.

    Other clubhouses do quite well with unapologetic Christians. Matt Holliday, Mariano Rivera, Albert Pujols, Brandon Webb, Jeff Franceour, Sean Casey, Craig Biggio, Todd Helton, Lance Berkman, Jeff Francoeur, Tom Glavine, John Smoltz, all are Christians that are very well respected by their teammates.

    There are plenty of reasons why there should be tensions in the Reds clubhouse. An ownership change, several GMs, annual managerial changes, a reputation for being a lousy team, a long streak of losing seasons, and a LOT of uneasy fans. Fans don't need to play the part of Nero, looking for a "tension" scapegoat for why the team has underperformed.
    What the problem with conjecture? We're not a jury, we're fans of a baseball team trying to figure out the reasons behind a trade. So many times I read posters saying "it's dangerous to" or ""be careful about." Why? Makes no difference to anyone, and has no impact on anything. Just a message board.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  12. #71
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    What the problem with conjecture? We're not a jury, we're fans of a baseball team trying to figure out the reasons behind a trade. So many times I read posters saying "it's dangerous to" or ""be careful about." Why? Makes no difference to anyone, and has no impact on anything. Just a message board.
    Conjecture can be fine. But a conjecture can evolve either into a theory and be tested, or into a rumor and become dangerous (ala The Sun Deck). My "Nero" comment was completely intentional. It's believed Nero set fire to a large section of Rome in order to clear land for a huge palace for himself. He accused Christians of setting the fire. He picked an easy target and the true culprit was able to hide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted
    After seeing the two Hamilton interviews on ESPN last night, I'm still feeling confident about that "conjecture."

    Someday, one of his former teammates will write a book and reveal what it was like to be his teammate. Then we'll know for sure.
    I saw Michael Young being interviewed during the Home Run Derby. He said they "love" having him on their team. He went on and on about Josh. Milton Bradley went out and towelled him off...having a lot of fun with him. Bradley even took him fishing, according to the article, and Hamilton is one of his close friends there. The Rangers as a team seem to have no problem with the guy. Guardado's brother was addicted to heroin and died. He can respect Hamilton for what he's overcome. No discomfort on his part.

    The question then becomes, "why are the Rangers more accepting of Hamilton than the Reds appeared to be." Judging from the "autographs" comment and Phillips pointing out that other players were on the team besides Hamilton, it appears that they may have been jealous of his abilities and popularity.

    I liked these lines from an SI article about when Hamilton went to Texas. It talks about teammate reactions to having Narron around Josh among other things: (http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/messages/chrono/8638717)

    To avoid a similar occurrence in Texas [Cincinnati player's attitudes], Daniels asked a few clubhouse leaders, including Kinsler, shortstop Michael Young and third baseman Hank Blalock how they thought players would react to having Narron around. "Basically what we told J.D. was, 'If this guy is going to help us win baseball games,' " says Kinsler, " 'we don't care.' " The day after the trade the Rangers held a press conference to introduce Hamilton to Dallas-area reporters. For an hour he spoke candidly about his journey back to baseball and his renewed commitment to his family and his faith. But it wasn't until Hamilton noticed Kinsler, Young and Blalock sitting in the back row that tears began to well in his eyes. "It's the support group that I have here that makes staying clean easy," he says.
    Already Hamilton is a fan favorite. "He is, by far, the nicest, friendliest player," says Gary Spraggins, a 27-year-old season-ticket holder. "The first week of spring training in Arizona, he's coming out onto the field with the music on the stadium speakers, and he stops in front of the fans in the outfield and leads them in singing."
    During another game, against the Astros, Hamilton was on base when Houston second baseman Craig Biggio, whom he'd never met, approached him. "I knew Ken Caminiti," Biggio said, referring to his former teammate who died of a drug overdose in 2004. "I know how hard it is, but you're headed in the right direction. Good going."
    After warmups he walks to the stands and hands a broken bat to one fan, his batting gloves to another.
    Current teammates, opponents, and fans love the guy. The question that we should be asking is "why couldn't the Reds love him, as well." THAT could be true cause of why this current team seems to have trouble playing as one.

  13. #72
    Member The Baumer's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    I think the love comes from the fact that Hamilton had already proved his worth in his short stint with the Reds, so the Rangers were receiving a known talent. And all the publicity was connected with that. When he came up with the Reds his promotion to the majors was probably seen as a publicity stunt and unjustified by certain players. Logically, it was. No one in the history of baseball has ever played 15 games in A ball, not played a game for 3 years, then been on the opening day ML roster. It wasn't until after Josh proved himself that the logic changed but I'm guessing by then certain Reds had already made their minds up about how they felt about him. He was an outsider (rule 5) that stole the team's thunder with a familiar back story that is easy to hate (he was still that former golden boy who gets everything handed to him). The Rangers got a solid ML bat with a back story that is impossible to hate (former golden boy redeems himself and becomes solid ML player).
    Last edited by The Baumer; 07-15-2008 at 05:40 PM.

  14. #73
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    I agree, Baumer. I understand that in the highly competitive world of professional baseball, there will be players that will think that Hamilton hadn't paid his baseball dues and be jealous of the attention he received. My concern is that if the Reds clubhouse has too many players that were upset that media attention didn't come their way or if they felt Hamilton was too nice to fans, THAT reveals something about the psychological makeup of the team. Whereas Texas players wanted a good player that would help them win, there are clues that would lead one to believe that some Reds players were more concerned about receiving the spotlight or maintaining an image than winning.

  15. #74
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio View Post
    No one knows if WK would have even offered Patterson a look if Josh were still in the fold, but I think saying JH wouldn't have played in Cincy is silly. He'd have been the CF until such time either he or someone else was moved.
    Hamilton projected as a right fielder, Hamilton has a history of injuries, Hamilton lacks the speed of a Patterson, all factors or criteria that Dusty Baker has been quoted as having when making his selection for a centerfielder. The playing time that he allotted to certain players seems to support the quotes. "He'd have been the CF until such time either he or someone else was moved." Hamilton was moved.

  16. #75
    Member Cedric's Avatar
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    Re: Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    My concern is that if the Reds clubhouse has too many players that were upset that media attention didn't come their way or if they felt Hamilton was too nice to fans, THAT reveals something about the psychological makeup of the team. Whereas Texas players wanted a good player that would help them win, there are clues that would lead one to believe that some Reds players were more concerned about receiving the spotlight or maintaining an image than winning.
    That is conjecture. There might be a million reasons why Hamilton didn't click with a few Reds players. If we can't play the guessing game in one direction I don't think we should with Brandon Phillips or other Reds.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.


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