CC being targeted by Milwaukee

[fearofpopvol1]

Harang going to the Brewers would suck. I doubt the Reds would want to trade the hoss within the division, unless it was a huge haul. I'm thinking the Brew Crew would have to give up less to get CC since he's in his contract year.

[Spring~Fields]

Harang going to the Brewers would suck. I doubt the Reds would want to trade the hoss within the division, unless it was a huge haul. I'm thinking the Brew Crew would have to give up less to get CC since he's in his contract year.

Did that really need to be said, more than once? The Reds are going to lose a minimum of 60 games a year regardless of who is pitching for Milwaukee or any other team for that matter.

Jocketty is going to trade the pieces that interest other teams, looking to get back what he believes he needs to win in Cincy, make no mistake about that.

[WVRedsFan]

Harang going to the Brewers would suck. I doubt the Reds would want to trade the hoss within the division, unless it was a huge haul. I'm thinking the Brew Crew would have to give up less to get CC since he's in his contract year.

I wouldn't worry about the Reds trading Harang within the division since we are now considering trading Arroyo with no one to put in his place (unless you consider Bailey and Thompson good enough to do that-which I do not). Give Milwaukee CC and we get farther behind this year. Next year, who knows?

[Spring~Fields]

I wouldn't worry about the Reds trading Harang within the division since we are now considering trading Arroyo with no one to put in his place (unless you consider Bailey and Thompson good enough to do that-which I do not). Give Milwaukee CC and we get farther behind this year. Next year, who knows?

If we are realistic, what does Jocketty have to trade?
A. Talent in demand by other teams.

Does he have the payroll budget to work with as Chicago, St. Louis, and Houston do in their division alone?
B. No

Does he really have a deep minor league system with major league ready talent in strarting pitching, relief pitching, key offensive/defensive players, third base ? NO, Centerfield ? No, Catchers ? No, SS ? NO, 2B ? NO, maybe two or three years from now yes. Now no.

So Jocketty is left sitting doing nothing or trading off pitching, key offensive or key defensive players from the MLB team. Yes or no ?

[WVRed]

I'd take Gamel, Salome, and LaPorta for Harang.

And I'd be shopping Harang to Milwaukee, too, for just that package.

I would too. Problem is, you would hear laughter from the Brewers in the background. Not to mention with Yonder coming up, we would have a hard time working in a spot for two defensive liabilities.

CC is a Cy Young and 19 game winner, Aaron is not. That isn't selling Harang short, but CC will command a lot more on the trade market.

[hebroncougar]

I would too. Problem is, you would hear laughter from the Brewers in the background. Not to mention with Yonder coming up, we would have a hard time working in a spot for two defensive liabilities.

CC is a Cy Young and 19 game winner, Aaron is not. That isn't selling Harang short, but CC will command a lot more on the trade market.

While that is true, on the other hand, Harang is locked for 3 more years at cost that probably isn't near what Sabathia will want. That could make Harang just as attractive as C.C. Especially when it is known that Sabathia wouldn't resign with Milwaukee, since he wants to go to the left coast. I don't know what they could get, but I'd sure as heck make the call, and sell it like heck as the above. If Milwaukee wants to judge pitchers with wins and how writers feel, so be it. I'd try and convince them exactly of that.

[GAC]

add to that the prospects they will get for Prince when they deal him in the next year or two...reloading the system for sure

The only problem is.... they always seem to be "reloading" without ever having won anything. I could understand if they were like the Marlins, where they won it and their players were then making huge demands because of it, and they let them go. But that's not been the case with the Brewers.

At what point and time do you decide who your core players are and try to hang onto some of them?

[lollipopcurve]

The Reds should be crouched in the wings of the Sabathia trade mart, waiting to trot out Harang as soon as CC is sold. There are going to be some eager clubs looking for the next best thing. Does not mean they should necessarily trade him, but they should be well situated in what will be a hot market.

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

Maybe the Crew be interested in Coco Cordero back? Didn't they just blow a whopping lead the other day?

[Big Klu]

Maybe the Crew be interested in Coco Cordero back? Didn't they just blow a whopping lead the other day?

Cordero has a no-trade clause.

[Tony Cloninger]

That blown lead reminds of the April 26, 1985 game.....living in LA...i somehow picked up the SF radio feed.....and listened the Reds going into bottom of the 9th with a 6-1 lead......and having Tibbs and Power give up 6 runs.

The Giants had 1st/2nd and a GB to SS and he could not go for the DP...and it cost them.

Luckily they had John "The Stopper" Stuper going the next day and he pitched a CG ...2-1 gem. Highlight of the year for him. I remember reading that Pete was told by Herzog that John was going to be a great addition to his staff.
he was more like the Josh Fogg version of it.

[Spring~Fields]

I wouldn't worry about the Reds trading Harang within the division since we are now considering trading Arroyo with no one to put in his place (unless you consider Bailey and Thompson good enough to do that-which I do not). Give Milwaukee CC and we get farther behind this year. Next year, who knows?

WVRedsFan and others

Check this to see if you think that this is fair and conservative enough.

I tried to make a conservative audit of the potential assets that the Reds have for Jocketty to work with.

I did it in a type of a accounting draft format.

Conservative estimate of the Jocketty GM assets, to work with

Goals/Objectives to potentially improve the team through trades or capitol (cash) expenditures

Primary goal/objective areas
-SP pitching
- relief pitching
- offense/defense combination players
- excessive below average player elimination
- eliminate costly long term contracts
- increases in payroll flexibility.

Current Assets -

Investor Capitol/Cash

1. player salary payroll - 2008 $ 74,117,695

A.) potential payroll flex from expiring contracts and trades

B.) conservative 7%-13% increase 74,115,695 x 10% $7,411,569

C.) with estimated increase investment of 10 % $81, 527, 264

Player Resource Assets -

Major League talent resources - potential trading personnel

1.) player talent that other teams might want

A.) primary - league average or above, reliable starting or relief pitching

B.) secondary pitching types - borderline or slightly below, potential to help short term

C.) quality league average or above, combination offense/defense player

D.) young low initial cost quality players

E.) bench - productive off the bench players to boost offense or defense

Question - what current Reds players fall under the above criteria:

Major League -

A type - Pitching - Volquez, Harang, Cordero, Burton, Affeldt, Bray

B type - secondary pitching - Arroyo, Weathers, Fogg, Majewski, Lincoln

C type - Offense/defense - B. Phillips, Keppinger, Hairston Jr.

D type - Encarncion, Votto, Bruce

E type - Ross, Bako, Dunn, Griffey Jr. (expense/contract negatives on Dunn, Griffey)

Minor League -

1. Pitching, offense/defense combination players

A.) near major league ready talent

B.) higher percentage quality future prospect talent

AAA - Potential SP- Thompson, Maloney, Potential Relievers- Roenicke Bailey, Belisle, Coffey

AA - SP - Jukich, Lecure

Potential Future Offense/defense Cumberland, Valaika, Henry, Turner, Dorn, DeJesus, Eyeman


Longevity-Aging-Miles/Years - Harang 2000-2008 9, Arroyo 2000-2008 9,

Omitted Weathers/Mercker types for aged factor, low market interest.

If Jocketty is going to go Oakland/Bean or Marlins Model, then he will transact players like Dunn, Griffey, Phillips, Affeldt, Arroyo, Harang, Cordero, Weathers, via allowing them to walk, or trade them. Receiving a maximum return for individual or combination trades.

* note - I realize there will be a difference of opinion on the valuing of assets.

* note - salary increase estimate based on increase or decreases from 2005-2008 7%, 10%, 13% increases rounded down, I opted for the 10% rounded down.

[WVRedsFan]

All I said was I doubted they'd part with Harang due to the current lack of starting pitching (Harang having forearm problems, Thompson back to the minors, Bailey's bad time at the MLB level) and I was certain they did not want him in the division. That's all.

Secondly, we don't know how much Castellini is going to spend and what Jocketty has in mind for that money. I still doubt Harang is a possibility unless the take includes a starting pitcher and I also doubt one of his quality could come at what he is making.

[Spring~Fields]

All I said was I doubted they'd part with Harang due to the current lack of starting pitching (Harang having forearm problems, Thompson back to the minors, Bailey's bad time at the MLB level) and I was certain they did not want him in the division. That's all.

HUH ..............I just wanted to know if you and others thought that was a fair and conservative estimate the Reds assets? Might too late to trade Harang with the mystery arm troubles.

What about the list of assets, is it a fair list?

[WVRedsFan]

HUH ..............I just wanted to know if you and others thought that was a fair and conservative estimate the Reds assets? Might too late to trade Harang with the mystery arm troubles.

What about the list of assets, is it a fair list?

As close as any of us could compile, I think.