Anyone who thinks Arroyo's arm isn't damaged is kidding themselves.

[Kingspoint]

Arroyo's arm is worn out.

He has the "tired arm".

The only solution is for his arm to be shut down for the season. Shutting it down for last Winter wasn't enough time. He needs the rest of the season and next Winter.

Harang is in the same boat.

[captainmorgan07]

Arroyo's mechanics are crap right about now. Way way way to many breaking balls to hitters. Not enough fastballs mixed in. His breaking stuff has no movement on it at all. I agree shut him down, put him on the DL for a broken belly button he needs rest.

[bleedsred]

Shades of Jimmy Haynes and Eric Milton(Chris Welsh).......lol, oh well, I guess Bronson will be in Cincy next year.

[CWRed]

He never pitches inside any more. So that breaking ball is not as effective because he uses it too much.

[Jefferson24]

So much for trading him. We couldn't give him away at this point.

[Griffey012]

he did have 1 solid start on 3 days rest this year. to me he seems like he just goes out and is on cruise control, kinda like he has lost his one pitch at a time focus

[Kingspoint]

Put him on the 30-day DL, and give Fogg his next several starts, and then go from there.

There are still millions and millions of dollars left on Arroyo's contract, so putting him out there every day like they have been doing is asinine. Shut him down so that he possibly has some value in 2009.

Everyone here saw how long it took for Majewski's arm to get better. It took two years. That's normal for trying to fix a "tired arm".

Be smart Castellini and protect what's left of your investment of Arroyo and shut him down. He's worthless at the moment.

Eric Milton was never this bad, but the difference between Milton and Arroyo, is that if Arroyo can get his arm substantial enough rest, then he can become the pitcher he was back in 2006.

[Kingspoint]

he did have 1 solid start on 3 days rest this year. to me he seems like he just goes out and is on cruise control, kinda like he has lost his one pitch at a time focus

It's not about one good start here or there, regardless of how many days rest....anyone can do it once in a while. It's about the fact that he's been getting POUNDED ALL YEAR, not just hit, but POUNDED. He is by far the worst starting pitcher in the National League when it comes to opposing OPS, but it's only because his arm is "tired". Shut him down before he trys to correct it and ends up blowing a labrum or something.

[HeatherC1212]

Something is definitely wrong with Bronson. He couldn't find his fastball for anything tonight and that's what killed his breaking stuff. He looked way off and now Majewski is basically going to take the brunt of this game which is a shame for him (and the other guys) because the bullpen doesn't deserve to get taxed tonight because a starter can't get himself going early.

And I'm sorry but Toronto is NOT that good of a team to have ELEVEN runs before the third inning.

[Kingspoint]

And they better start giving Harang some rest.

Harang, too, is getting POUNDED compared to what he has done in the past. His opposing OPS is normally around .700 with last year it being around .670, but this year it's ballooned up to the .840's......that's Miltonesque, not Harang. Again, it's only because he's led the league in innings pitched each of the last three years, and he's up there again this year. He needs some rest...a missed start would be nice...I don't care if they let Affeldt pitch and they lose because it's more important that Harang is healthy in 2009 when the REDS will have a legitimate shot at a playoff spot.

[Griffey012]

It's not about one good start here or there, regardless of how many days rest....anyone can do it once in a while. It's about the fact that he's been getting POUNDED ALL YEAR, not just hit, but POUNDED. He is by far the worst starting pitcher in the National League when it comes to opposing OPS, but it's only because his arm is "tired". Shut him down before he trys to correct it and ends up blowing a labrum or something.

I was just throwing that out there because it is comical. The fact he has got hit hard almost all year after being abused the previous two years, and then one of his few good starts was on three days rest. I wasnt trying to refute every else's point.

[Kingspoint]

I was just throwing that out there because it is comical. The fact he has got hit hard almost all year after being abused the previous two years, and then one of his few good starts was on three days rest. I wasnt trying to refute every else's point.

It was odd that he had a good outing on 3 day's rest.

It's too bad that this happened to Arroyo and Harang because if it hadn't we'd be challenging for a playoff spot in 2008 not 2009.

Now though, because of Arroyo and Harang, I'm not so sure now if the REDS can contend even in 2009 unless they are able to trade Dunn and/or Junior for a #3 starter.

[Fullboat]

Who caught for Arroyo in his last three starts? Maybe he is more comfortable with Ross.

[redlegs7089]

we should of traded him last year for yunel and jo jo reyes last year

[George Foster]

It is being reported on the ticker by ESPN that it is the most earned runs by a starting pitcher in one inning since 1900....that is 108 years dude....