Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

  1. #1
    Worth The Wait
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    4,309

    Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    I did this last year, but decided to go into more detail this season.

    Just how bad of a mistake is Dusty making by continuing to hit Junior 3rd out of "respect?"

    Well, the following numbers are quite staggering.

    I took all National League teams #3 hitters-- this was determined by the player on each team with the most AB's at that slot.

    I then ranked them 1-16 in 5 different categories (Avg, HR, RBI, OBP, SLG)

    Here are the rankings in each category....at the end, I then added up each category-- the player with the lowest score was ranked "highest," and on down the list.

    Avg.

    1. Chipper
    2. Pujols
    3. Berkman
    4. Holliday
    5. Guzman
    6. Lee
    7. Martin
    8. Hudson
    9. Utley
    10. Winn
    11. Wright
    12. Bay
    13. Braun
    (tie) Gonzalez
    15. Cantu
    16. Junior

    As a point of reference Cantu is hitting .283, Junior is hitting .240

    HR

    1. Utley
    2. Berkman
    (tie) Gonzalez
    4. Braun
    5. Chipper
    6. Pujols
    (tie) Bay
    8. Wright
    9. Lee
    (tie) Cantu
    11. Holliday
    12. Junior
    13. Martin
    14. Hudson
    15. Winn
    (tie) Guzman

    RBI

    1. Gonzalez
    2. Berkman
    3. Utley
    4. Wright
    5. Braun
    6. Lee
    7. Chipper
    8. Holliday
    (tie) Cantu
    10. Pujols
    11. Bay
    12. Martin
    13. Junior
    14. Hudson
    15. Winn
    16. Guzman

    OBP

    1. Chipper
    2. Pujols
    3. Berkman
    4. Holliday
    5. Martin
    6. Bay
    7. Wright
    8. Utley
    9. Lee
    10. Hudson
    11. Winn
    12. Gonzalez
    13. Junior
    14. Guzman
    15. Cantu
    16. Braun

    SLG

    1. Berkman
    2. Chipper
    3. Pujols
    4. Utley
    5. Holliday
    6. Braun
    7. Bay
    8. Gonzalez
    9. Lee
    10. Wright
    11. Cantu
    12. Hudson
    13. Martin
    14. Guzman
    15. Winn
    16. Junior

    Yep, Ken Griffey Junior is being out-slugged by Christian Guzman, Russell Martin, and Randy Winn

    Totals:

    1. Berkman (11)
    2. Chipper (16)
    3. Pujols (23)
    4. Utley (25)
    5. Holliday (32)
    6. Gonzalez (36)
    7. Lee (39)
    8. Wright (40)
    9. Bay (43)
    10. Braun (44)
    11. Martin (50)
    12. Hudson (58)
    (tie) Cantu (58)
    14. Guzman (64)
    15. Winn (66)
    16. Junior (70)

    Now, THAT is respect!!

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,689

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Wow. I didn't know it was that bad. Everytime I keep thinking about the Reds possibly getting back in this race, I keep thinking about what Dusty Baker is doing to prevent them from doing this. It seriously is disturbing to me that he puts Junior in the 3 hole, which continues to be my biggest problem with Dusty. Part of me keeps saying, it's only for the rest of this year, as Junior will be gone next year, but the other part says, we'll just have someone else for Dusty to miscast or bat high in the order out of "respect." Makes me sick. 2.5 more years of this guy.

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    1,002

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Have you managed to finish your analysis by looking at the statistics versus the rest of the league at every other RED position.

    Junior is performing below his own expectations but my guess is he is not the only RED to be in that position.

  5. #4
    Member VR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Vancouver, Wa
    Posts
    8,569

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    I'll bet you a nickel he's got the highest score of any full time Red (70)
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  6. #5
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    south of the border
    Posts
    23,858

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Jr shouldn't hit 3rd ... but it isn't going to change with Dusty at the helm.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #6
    Worth The Wait
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    4,309

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Have you managed to finish your analysis by looking at the statistics versus the rest of the league at every other RED position.

    Junior is performing below his own expectations but my guess is he is not the only RED to be in that position.
    I haven't done that, but I let's just say Dunn is a number 5 hitter-- I doubt he'd rank nearly as low as Junior does in comparison to their slots.

    No doubt our offense as a whole is unispiring to say the least and Junior is certainly not the only problem.

    But he is a HUGE problem. Many people consider the 3 hole to be the most important spot in the lineup-- and the Reds have one of the worst (if not THE worst) #3 hitter in all of baseball.

    In the end though, you can't blame Junior for where he bats in the order. Thats up to Dusty.

    I honestly wonder if Dusty realizes how bad Junior is...or if he is still blinded by the name on the back of the jersey.

  8. #7
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,927

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    In all fairness Edskin, it doesn't matter what Cantu or any other non-Red player is doing.

    Dusty can only use the players he has. Among the regulars, Jr is third in OBP (just barely trailing Votto). If you count Harriston as a regular, he's fourth in OBP.

    Sure, Jr's power numbers have slipped, but probably every manager in baseball would bat him somewhere between #3 and 5.

    I don't think batting Jr one or two slots higher in the lineup than "optimal" is killing this team. Jr isn't a superstar, but he's far from being the only problem this team has.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #8
    Member redsrule2500's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    3,202

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    This is why I'm excited for next year: NO MORE GRIFFEY.
    redsrule2500
    Go Reds!
    Baseball Bliss
    Im a normal guy blessed with the ability to hit a baseball. - Sean Casey

  10. #9
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,590

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by redsrule2500 View Post
    This is why I'm excited for next year: NO MORE GRIFFEY.
    You subscribe to my wife's theory that the Reds won't win until Jr is gone.
    .

  11. #10
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Santa Paula, CA
    Posts
    6,536

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Welcome to the party boyz.....
    "Is there a problem officers?"

  12. #11
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edskin View Post
    Just how bad of a mistake is Dusty making by continuing to hit Junior 3rd out of "respect?"

    Well, the following numbers are quite staggering.
    Excellent question one that the alert have been asking since April as the one and two run losses piled up taking the Reds out of contention as Castellini and Jocketty set by throwing their towels.

  13. #12
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    Wow. I didn't know it was that bad. Everytime I keep thinking about the Reds possibly getting back in this race, I keep thinking about what Dusty Baker is doing to prevent them from doing this. It seriously is disturbing to me that he puts Junior in the 3 hole, which continues to be my biggest problem with Dusty. Part of me keeps saying, it's only for the rest of this year, as Junior will be gone next year, but the other part says, we'll just have someone else for Dusty to miscast or bat high in the order out of "respect." Makes me sick. 2.5 more years of this guy.
    You have to seriously consider what the fans of Chicago and San Francisco saw and complained about and now in Cincinnati is exponentially increased daily with Dusty Baker making the decisions, Baker certainly isn't getting much out of this team. So can we assume it will take a 1-8 order of league average or better, and a payroll of over a hundred million to put Dusty back on top again despite his decisions?

    How long can Jocketty and Castellini watch these charades as they play the crowd and the losing stops now card with absolutely no substance to support their positions? Except another losing season.
    Last edited by Spring~Fields; 07-08-2008 at 02:57 AM.

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    1,002

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Wouldn't it be great for Redszone and even greater for the REDS if Junior and REDS picked up his option for next year.

  15. #14
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    4,689

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Wouldn't it be great for Redszone and even greater for the REDS if Junior and REDS picked up his option for next year.
    If Junior's option is picked up, I'm taking a one year break from baseball. It will be a much needed break.

  16. #15
    Worth The Wait
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Oklahoma City
    Posts
    4,309

    Re: Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Wouldn't it be great for Redszone and even greater for the REDS if Junior and REDS picked up his option for next year.
    This is actually why I hate the Junior issue.

    I really LIKE Junior. I feel so badly for him that the latter part of his career has been hampered by injuries and playing for a non-competitive team.

    In many ways, it's almost as if Ken Griffey Jr. played his last season in 1999. I don't think baseball fans have very many (fond) memories of him after that point.

    Even at his best in Cincy (which was pretty darn good), he was never that spectacular "kid" we saw in Seattle.

    I actually think Junior STILL has a place in MLB, but that place is on a contender's roster-- either as a platoon player/DH, or an everyday player batting low in the order.

    His "place" has never been in Cincy. It was never a good fit from day one, but the Reds organization continues to force feed it to us, and it seems to have filtered all the way down to the manager.

    I really hate that the frustration surrounding Junior manifests itself with fans viewing him in such a negative light (as a player). But it's only natural.

    When it comes to Junior and the Reds, it's just like "let it go....let it go already."


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25