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Thread: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

  1. #61
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Beane gives away another starter. Imagine that. I sure wish the Reds would have gotten Dan Haren. Oakland's days of being serious contenders are a long, long way away. Billy Beane will be gone before it happens again. You just don't give away starting pitching for "hope".

    If Rich Harden is healthy, he will be one of the 3 or 4 best starters in the league.
    Rich Harden is almost never healthy. But teams like the A's and Twins don't live in the same universe as the rest of us. In their world, good pitchers grow on trees.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

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  3. #62
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Beane gives away another starter. Imagine that. I sure wish the Reds would have gotten Dan Haren. Oakland's days of being serious contenders are a long, long way away. Billy Beane will be gone before it happens again. You just don't give away starting pitching for "hope".
    Yet they stand 8 games over .500 and only 3.5 games out of the wild card. Beane might know what he's doing. Just sayin'....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    If Rich Harden is healthy, he will be one of the 3 or 4 best starters in the league.
    Yes and if Dunn converts 50% of his strikeouts into hits, he'll be a HOF candidate.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #63
    Something clever pahster's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Yet they stand 8 games over .500 and only 3.5 games out of the wild card. Beane might know what he's doing. Just sayin'....
    Yep. Their record is 49-41 and their pythag is 52-38. They're a very good team.

  5. #64
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Yet they stand 8 games over .500 and only 3.5 games out of the wild card. Beane might know what he's doing. Just sayin'....
    And with any luck at all given their Run Differential they'd currently be leading their division over the punchless Angels.

    Yes and if Dunn converts 50% of his strikeouts into hits, he'll be a HOF candidate.
    A lot of Cubs fans who are now crowing about obtaining Harden seem to have a short memory regarding how frustrating it is to have an extremely talented yet perenially injured starting pitcher (or two) hanging around. Harden has been on the DL twice already this season and I don't think it's any coincidence that Beane moved him after he was able to match his total Start output for the last two years this season.

    And like the Haren deal, I'm scratching my head as to how folks appear to be undervaluing the return considering Harden's injury history. Sean Gallagher, despite his picture's resemblance to the paunchy version of Dustin Diamond, is a really good pitching prospect who's actually pitched pretty well for the Cubs. Eric Patterson and Matt Murton are NOT bad baseball players. Even the last piece of the puzzle, Josh Donaldson, is a pretty rare minor league Catcher of interest.

    And methinks that lost in all of this is that should the A's continue to find themselves in the race, the additional prospects acquired via Beane's mechanizations put them in a pretty good position to play the "rent-a-hitter" game (and they'll likely need at least one more of those) later this season.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch thatís over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.Ē
    --Ted Williams

  6. #65
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    Oakland's days of being serious contenders are a long, long way away.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #66
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Krivsky was the only GM more interesting than Beane.

  8. #67
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    I'm terrified that the Cubs are slowly becoming the Boston Red Sox of the NL.

    A team with history and tradition that hasn't one the big one forever, finally gets the monkey off it's back and with unlimited payroll and a huge and even now more fervent fanbase goes on a long run of dominance.

    I hate to say it, but I can see it coming. I know one thing, I'll have a stake in this year's playoffs.

    Rooting for the Cubs to lose so that they don't become the Red Sox of the NL.

  9. #68
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm terrified that the Cubs are slowly becoming the Boston Red Sox of the NL.

    A team with history and tradition that hasn't one the big one forever, finally gets the monkey off it's back and with unlimited payroll and a huge and even now more fervent fan-base goes on a long run of dominance.

    I hate to say it, but I can see it coming. I know one thing, I'll have a stake in this year's playoffs.

    Rooting for the Cubs to lose so that they don't become the Red Sox of the NL.
    If the Red Sox had made this trade, they'd practically keep Harden in bubble wrap until playoff time. The Cubs might be deep enough to do that, but I don't know if they're smart enough.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  10. #69
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    If the Red Sox had made this trade, they'd practically keep Harden in bubble wrap until playoff time. The Cubs might be deep enough to do that, but I don't know if they're smart enough.
    The Red Sox of today maybe, but the Red Sox of four years ago, trying to do anything to get the monkey off their backs, maybe not.

    It's amazing what a couple championships in a few years does to the attitude of an organization.

  11. #70
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm terrified that the Cubs are slowly becoming the Boston Red Sox of the NL.

    A team with history and tradition that hasn't one the big one forever, finally gets the monkey off it's back and with unlimited payroll and a huge and even now more fervent fanbase goes on a long run of dominance.

    I hate to say it, but I can see it coming. I know one thing, I'll have a stake in this year's playoffs.

    Rooting for the Cubs to lose so that they don't become the Red Sox of the NL.
    The Cardinals have been doing it since at least 2000 forward, and now the Cubbies woke up last year and said, hey, we can afford to play this game, the Reds, well you know.

  12. #71
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    The Cardinals have been doing it since at least 2000 forward, and now the Cubbies woke up last year and said, hey, we can afford to play this game, the Reds, well you know.
    Yep. Good times.

  13. #72
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    The Red Sox of today maybe, but the Red Sox of four years ago, trying to do anything to get the monkey off their backs, maybe not.

    It's amazing what a couple championships in a few years does to the attitude of an organization.
    The Red Sox of 4 years ago were pretty careful with Pedro, and the Cubs of today seem to be a little deeper, at least from a distance.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  14. #73
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    I think the people who think the Cubs got a steal are failing to account for the incredible risk associated with Harden. This is a guy who has thrown more than 130 IP once, in 2004 at the age of 22. In the last three years he's been on the DL 6 times.

    If Harden stays healthy, it's likely the Cubs realize the most value. But the odds of Harden staying healthy aren't that great. Meanwhile, Beane continues to realize that wins added at the bottom your roster count just as much as the ones at the top. He also realizes it's better to trade a guy too early rather than too late. Bronson Arroyo knows what I'm talking about...
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 07-09-2008 at 12:31 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  15. #74
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think the people who think the Cubs got a steal are failing to account for the incredibly risk associated with Harden. This is a guy who has thrown more than 130 IP once, in 2004 at the age of 22. In the last three years he's been on the DL 6 times.
    it is high risk due to the fact of Hardens injury history. It is not risky in the sense that none of the players traded were integral to the Cubs success this year nor are they that important for the future.

    I like the deal from the As perspective. After all the injury problems Beane just shined up Harden and got a deal he wanted.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  16. #75
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    [QUOTE=RedsManRick;1688499]I think the people who think the Cubs got a steal are failing to account for the incredibly risk associated with Harden. This is a guy who has thrown more than 130 IP once, in 2004 at the age of 22. In the last three years he's been on the DL 6 times.

    If Harden stays healthy, it's likely the Cubs realize the most value. But the odds of Harden staying healthy aren't that great. Meanwhile, Beane continues to realize that wins added at the bottom your roster count just as much as the ones at the top. He also realizes it's better to trade a guy too earlier than too late. Bronson Arroyo knows what I'm talking about...[/QUOTE]

    As does Aaron Harang, unfortunately...


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