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Thread: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

  1. #76
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    [QUOTE=membengal;1688520]
    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I think the people who think the Cubs got a steal are failing to account for the incredibly risk associated with Harden. This is a guy who has thrown more than 130 IP once, in 2004 at the age of 22. In the last three years he's been on the DL 6 times.

    If Harden stays healthy, it's likely the Cubs realize the most value. But the odds of Harden staying healthy aren't that great. Meanwhile, Beane continues to realize that wins added at the bottom your roster count just as much as the ones at the top. He also realizes it's better to trade a guy too earlier than too late. Bronson Arroyo knows what I'm talking about...[/QUOTE]

    As does Aaron Harang, unfortunately...
    Yea its a real shame he didn't keep Haren this season they may be in first place. In all fairness to Beane he continues to build teams that look like they are on the verge of competing and then trades them off. It almost seems like Beane doesn't realize how much of a crapshoot it is once you get into the playoffs. Its not always the best team that wins, rather the hottest. But Billy keep trading them off.

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  3. #77
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Yea its a real shame he didn't keep Haren this season they may be in first place.
    A's got 2 starting pitchers and a starting CF out the deal, I submit they are better off after the deal

    Smith 17 starts 104IP 3.62 ERA
    Eveland 18 starts 108IP 3.50 ERA
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  4. #78
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    A's got 2 starting pitchers and a starting CF out the deal, I submit they are better off after the deal

    Smith 17 starts 104IP 3.62 ERA
    Eveland 18 starts 108IP 3.50 ERA
    Ya. I think sometimes the "big name" clouds the "big picture" when fans discuss the valuation of players.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #79
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Meanwhile, Beane continues to realize that wins added at the bottom your roster count just as much as the ones at the top. He also realizes it's better to trade a guy too early rather than too late. Bronson Arroyo knows what I'm talking about...
    The man appears to be unique in his approach and dealings compared to the majority of his contemporaries.

  6. #80
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    The man appears to be unique in his approach and dealings compared to the majority of his contemporaries.
    Well, I think we can say that Beane doesn't really give a crap what anybody else thinks about his decisions.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #81
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, I think we can say that Beane doesn't really give a crap what anybody else thinks about his decisions.
    He doesn't have to worry about job security. It makes a huge difference.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  8. #82
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, I think we can say that Beane doesn't really give a crap what anybody else thinks about his decisions.
    Beane polishes these starters up in the Coliseum expanse, then capitalizes on their peak value to get a bounty of a return.

    It's too bad the Reds haven't made that a core principle with their hitters. Plump up those stats at GABP and cash in for higher quality pitching.
    Baseball is like church. Many attend, few understand

  9. #83
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    He doesn't have to worry about job security. It makes a huge difference.
    I suppose you could make a chicken or the egg argument. However, if you do your job well, as Beane has, you do tend to get the latitude he gets. And Beane didn't do a good job by doing what the media or fans would've liked.

    To his credit, Krivksy was likewise trying to be an independent thinker. He just didn't do a very good job of it....
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. #84
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by VR View Post
    Beane polishes these starters up in the Coliseum expanse, then capitalizes on their peak value to get a bounty of a return.

    It's too bad the Reds haven't made that a core principle with their hitters. Plump up those stats at GABP and cash in for higher quality pitching.
    I agree 100%. Hatteberg should have been traded. Aurilia should have been traded. Hairston should be traded.

    That said, we don't know that Reds GMs haven't tried. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the same GMs that seem to fall for the pitcher-excels-in-a-pitcher's-park phenomenon don't fall for the same trick when it comes to hitters. They're just so famished for pitching that they're willing to ignore the warning signs. Not so for hitters.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #85
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, I think we can say that Beane doesn't really give a crap what anybody else thinks about his decisions.
    He has to be a very intelligent man that has found a niche where he excels. Beane has several successes, and continues to stay focused upon his goals and objectives, that appear to work out well.

  12. #86
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, I think we can say that Beane doesn't really give a crap what anybody else thinks about his decisions.
    No GM worth his salt is nor should they be.... It's nice when they engage the fans though.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  13. #87
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    No GM worth his salt is nor should they be.... It's nice when they engage the fans though.
    Agreed. But we both know there are GMs out there whose fear of appearances affects their ability to build the best team.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #88
    post hype sleeper cincinnati chili's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Beane is wrong on occasion (T. Long; E. Chavez's contract), but he's right enough to constantly keep his team in contention. The mere fact that Beane sees something in Gallagher means that we should all take a second look at him. He's only 22 and, unlike Homer Bailey, has actually been good to dominant at every level where he's pitched except the majors (where he's been okay this year). As Steel said, Patterson and Murton are - AT MINIMUM - useful major league players who might be even more than that with time. I don't know the catcher.
    How, then, are those people of the future—who are taking steroids every day—going to look back on baseball players who used steroids? They're going to look back on them as pioneers. They're going to look back at it and say "So what?" - Bill James, Cooperstown and the 'Roids

  15. #89
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by cincinnati chili View Post
    Beane is wrong on occasion (T. Long; E. Chavez's contract), but he's right enough to constantly keep his team in contention. The mere fact that Beane sees something in Gallagher means that we should all take a second look at him. He's only 22 and, unlike Homer Bailey, has actually been good to dominant at every level where he's pitched except the majors (where he's been okay this year). As Steel said, Patterson and Murton are - AT MINIMUM - useful major league players who might be even more than that with time. I don't know the catcher.
    I honestly don't understand what folks DON'T see in Sean Gallagher. His minor league numbers are excellent. The guy has a solid sinker he can throw around 90 MPH and he can work effectively in the 91-94 MPH range with the ability to fire 95+ when he feels like it's needed. His curve projects to be a plus and potentially a plus-plus pitch at the MLB level. The guy can bring the heater, knows what his effective working range is, and he's cerebral; a pitcher rather than a "thrower" at age 22 with really good stuff. I wouldn't suggest that he's a Brandon Webb-level talent, but he's already demonstrated that he can get MLB hitters out at a very young age. Surely he needs to work on his command, but the A's got a guy who projects really well and who's also been actualized versus MLB hitters with a good deal of success.

    Add Murton and Patterson to that versus the promise of an oft-injured Harden and just a fairly decent reliever in Gaudin and you have a good baseball trade that meets the needs of both teams.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  16. #90
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Cubs Acquire Rich Harden

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm terrified that the Cubs are slowly becoming the Boston Red Sox of the NL.
    .
    When they realigned into 3 divisions, I always figured the Cubs were a huge sleeping giant. It was only a question of when they decided they wanted to win.

    I got really worried as they started spending big money on good free agents.
    You are right, at this pace, they will use their money to grab the Hardens/Becketts away from the poor teams and build up a talent base that is going to be very tough to compete with.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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