Actually, I put Cueto/Homer on Dick Pole's inability to work with pitchers. Arroyo, not so sure on him. As for Harang, if he were 12-2 with a 2.30 ERA, yeah, it wouldn't change the fact that using him the way he was used in San Diego and shortly there after in his next start was the worst decision made in baseball this season without question in my mind.Originally Posted by Joseph
Untrue. Straw man.
Again, I at least, and others in here like Stormy, have praised to varying degrees Dusty's use of Cueto and Volquez this season. I even started a thread re: same. In general, I find he has altered his approach to using them as compared to how he was using Wood, Prior, and Zambrano back in 2003. In that thread, I even did a pitch count comparison.
So, that's good for Dusty, and I acknowledged as much.
That is aside from the malpractice that he engaged in, in this instance. His managing that particular game was negligent in the highest degree, and it was uber-unwise with regard to several key assets for this club, not the least of which being Aaron Harang. It IS possible to acknowledge and discuss that without simply sweeping relevant and salient criticisms of that horrible day into a general Dusty-gonna-draw-haters dismissal. You are better than that.
I can see how Dusty got caught up in the moment re: the 18 inning game. I'll even gie him a pass for getting cornered and getting out managed ...it happens.
But to pitch Harang and 2 other pitchers on short rest-that's just silly. He had 2 or 3 days to figure out a game plan. Heck, management had 2 or 3 days to figure out a game plan. Pitching 3 guys on short rest was the best they could do?
And, to clarify, that particular blame falls as much or more on Jocketty than it does on Dusty. Damage control following the 18-inning debacle should have been job one for Jocketty. He compounded the problem by doing absolutely nothing and allowing too many pitches to pile up unncessarily.
"Barber was having his uniform measured, so he would look good in the diathermy machine?" - Jim Bouton, Ball Four
Never overlook the obvious
Jocketty (who deserves part of the blame) is not used to having to reign in a manager. LaRussa is pretty good at not winging it. Dusty not so much.
Dusty has to have a solid management team around him to educate him on what's being learned about the game of baseball as it relates to research and stats. He's about 10 years behind the times and a good management team could give him parameters within he could work and make decisions. Essentially a good management team could wire around his deficits and flesh out his strengths (relating to players, possibly hitting, etc..).
What's happened instead is a mangement team who have assigned duties without really questioning anyone's decision making skills. I think Wayne K. advocated that kind of approach. From what i understand he was secretive and did not share info within the organization (heck the CEO wanted more info from the guy and he wouldn't give it up). So that creates a kind of workplace where folks do their jobs, but do not communicate outside their duties.
I'm guessing Bob C. may have seen that and is attempting to open up the system to allow better communication to flow within the management team and to create a healthy culture.
Things may have been in disarray because of the changes made at the top. They may have not been able to give Dusty a framework from which to work. So Dusty does what he does best....wing it.
Well there is the problem. Jocketty was run out of St Louis because he didn't want to move toward stats and join the 21st century. Couple the two together and woohoo, go Reds.
And White supposedly threw 517 innings in 1880, the following year. But in 1881, White was down to only 18 innings in 2 games: presumably due to being injured.
This was supposedly followed by 4 more years of 290-577 innings per year. Then, in 1886, he only threw 26 innings and was done for good, at age 32.
This was a whole different kind of baseball. No gloves were used, flat sided bats were allowed until 1893, spit balls were legal (and common), and scorekeeping was not kept the way it is today, or even close. Did you know that batter strike out stats were not counted until 1910? That foul balls didn't usually count as stikes until 1903? That MRIs had not been invented? That there was no night baseball?
It is ridiculous to compare 1879 stats with 2008.
__________________
"I think we’re starting to get to the point where people are starting to get tired of this stretch of ball,” Votto said. “I think something needs to start changing and start going in a different direction. I’m going to do my part to help make that change.”
Like how the Mariners used a backup catcher the other night when they had 4 unused pitchers on the bench?
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
No more ridiculous that taking seriously a post so obviosly made in jest....
Dusty sent Fogg out to hold the lead in the 10th. When Fogg put a couple of runners on, Baker brought in Bray
STOO-PID!
Bray should've started that inning, regardless of matchups. If Bill blows the save and the game is retied, then it's up to Fogg to pitch until the game is decided (which would've been long before 18 innings, no doubt...)
Never overlook the obvious
Yep. I can remember that game thread where many of us were screaming for Bray to start the inning.
No more ridiculous that taking seriously a post so obviosly made in jest....
Thanks for understanding. Can't believe the guy threw 680 innings. A good manager would have shut him down after 620.
By the way, I acknowledge that the Mariners used a catcher to pitch in a 1-1 game in the 15th inning the other day and lost. Guy apparently had pitched in the minor leagues, but still. I guess Baker could have done the same, not sure fans are paying to see games essentially forfeited in that way.
Were the Reds 18 or so games out of it at that point in the season?
Hard to fathom anyone not grasping the the enormous disparity in these two vastly different situations. Small, traditionally pitching bereft franchise's primary asset, in his prime, potentially under large contract through 2011, versus the world's largest payroll taking it's umpteen millionth flier on a few months of a 44 year old retiree-in-waiting. Clemens could spontaneously implode at that juncture and the Yanks couldn't care, whereas the Reds' only opportunity to compete anytime in the near future completely depends upon the continued health and production of the first proven "ace" they've had since Jose Rijo.
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
Reply With Quote