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Thread: Dusty's dumbest move...

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  1. #1
    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Dusty's dumbest move...

    I say it happened Sunday. Witness this quote:

    The Reds took the early lead. They loaded the bases in the second with no outs. Edwin Encarnacion singled, Andy Phillips doubled and Corey Patterson was hit by a pitch.

    "We had him on the ropes," Baker said.

    David Ross got a run home with a sacrifice fly.

    The usual play here is to have Bailey bunt. But the leadoff hitter, Jerry Hairston Jr., had been hit with a pitch as he tried to bunt in the first. He could not swing the bat properly as a result.

    "That's why we let Homer hit," Baker said. "He's a pretty good hitter. Then let Jerry squeeze bunt or something."

    But Bailey bounced into a 4-6-3 double play.

    Hairston led off the third with a bunt. He beat it out, despite pulling up when his hamstring locked up. He was carried off the field.


    So Dusty, Hairston COULD NOT swing the bat and you kept him in? With Bruce available on the bench? Having Bailey swing away because Hairston COULD NOT SWING THE BAT!!! Idiotic.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

  2. #2
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Just another one to add to the list. But to be fair, it's not like he had other OF options available. Oh, wait...
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  3. #3
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    the two-out squeeze play would have been interesting

    especially with runners still on first and second

  4. #4
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    After that debacle and leaving Weathers in to pitch the 9th, I think Dusty needs to move on. He just isn't a good field manager at all. He might be a fine bench coach, but I can't see how he still has a job.
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    "Let's Roll" TeamBoone's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    I haven't yet figured out why he pulled Bailey in a tie ballgame with 2 outs and a runner on first... just because a left was coming up? IMHO, not a good enough reason when he was pitching well.
    "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    I haven't yet figured out why he pulled Bailey in a tie ballgame with 2 outs and a runner on first... just because a left was coming up? IMHO, not a good enough reason when he was pitching well.
    let him succeed, then get him out before he screws up. That part I like.

  7. #7
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    let him succeed, then get him out before he screws up. That part I like.
    Bingo.

    If he gives up a two run jack to Fielder there....his big step forward in this start has been erased.
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamBoone View Post
    I haven't yet figured out why he pulled Bailey in a tie ballgame with 2 outs and a runner on first... just because a left was coming up? IMHO, not a good enough reason when he was pitching well.
    Bailey had thrown about 100 pitches and Fielder is one of those hitters that you don't let beat you with a right handed pitcher on the mound.

    If Fielder had hit a HR off of Bailey, most posters here would have added that to the list of Baker's mistakes yesterday. And complained that Bailey was being pushed way too hard.

    Baker removing Bailey whe he did was the exact right thing to do.

  9. #9
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Sometimes it just seems like people bash on Dusty for being Dusty.

    All things considered, I can't say he's been a terrible manager. Could he have been better? Of course. But, on the other hand, its not like I'm exactly pining for the days of Boone, Miley and Narron running the show.

    He hasn't abused the young arms, and he's getting high production out of the BP arms as well.

    Not a bad overall showing by Dusty. Certainly not worth the money he's being paid, but no worse than anything that's been around here in recent memory either.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Sometimes it just seems like people bash on Dusty for being Dusty.

    All things considered, I can't say he's been a terrible manager. Could he have been better? Of course. But, on the other hand, its not like I'm exactly pining for the days of Boone, Miley and Narron running the show.

    He hasn't abused the young arms, and he's getting high production out of the BP arms as well.

    Not a bad overall showing by Dusty. Certainly not worth the money he's being paid, but no worse than anything that's been around here in recent memory either.

    I agree and the team is more competitive than in recent years. The response is that the players are better, true, but keep in mind that they are near .500 and Harang is 3-11. Overall I'm ok with Dusty.

    But I wasn't happy with the use of Weathers in the ninth yesterday. My hunch is that Dusty was influenced by all the bad publicity over the extra innings San Diego game. Just speculating that Dusty thought it might be a long extra innings game and didn't want to get caught short with relief pitchers again.

    So he tried to stretch out Weathers and got burned. (Weathers as a Red has always been more effective in his first inning of work, putting him out there in the ninth was major high risk, particularly third straight appearance for him.)

  11. #11
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I agree and the team is more competitive than in recent years. The response is that the players are better, true, but keep in mind that they are near .500 and Harang is 3-11. Overall I'm ok with Dusty.

    But I wasn't happy with the use of Weathers in the ninth yesterday. My hunch is that Dusty was influenced by all the bad publicity over the extra innings San Diego game. Just speculating that Dusty thought it might be a long extra innings game and didn't want to get caught short with relief pitchers again.

    So he tried to stretch out Weathers and got burned. (Weathers as a Red has always been more effective in his first inning of work, putting him out there in the ninth was major high risk, particularly third straight appearance for him.)
    And that's too bad, because with the three-day All-Star break looming on the horizon, there is actually precedent for using some of the starting pitchers in relief for an inning or two on the day before the break, if necessary. Cueto hadn't pitched since Wednesday, and Arroyo hadn't pitched since his five innings on Thursday. Both could have been available to give an inning in the pen in an emergency, if needed. I'm not saying that they should have been the first options, but with Burton unavailable, they could have provided insurance in case of another extra-inning game.
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu View Post
    And that's too bad, because with the three-day All-Star break looming on the horizon, there is actually precedent for using some of the starting pitchers in relief for an inning or two on the day before the break, if necessary. Cueto hadn't pitched since Wednesday, and Arroyo hadn't pitched since his five innings on Thursday. Both could have been available to give an inning in the pen in an emergency, if needed. I'm not saying that they should have been the first options, but with Burton unavailable, they could have provided insurance in case of another extra-inning game.

    According to the Brewers announcers Dusty had Arroyo warming in the bullpen late in the game yesterday. Don't know if that means Arroyo was a serious candidate to get in the game. Doubt Dusty would experiment with Cueto in that spot, not after the San Diego debacle in late May.

    Presumably, Affeldt and Majewski were available yesterday, as was Cordero. Anyone of the three was preferable there to another inning of Weathers after three straight appearances. Both Affeldt and Majewski can pitch two inning stretches, if the game went on that long.
    Last edited by Kc61; 07-14-2008 at 02:53 PM.

  13. #13
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    According to the Brewers announcers Dusty had Arroyo warming in the bullpen late in the game yesterday. Don't know if that means Arroyo was a serious candidate to get in the game. Doubt Dusty would experiment with Cueto in that spot, not after the San Diego debacle in late May.

    Presumably, Affeldt and Majewski were available yesterday, as was Cordero. Anyone of the three was preferable there to another innings of Weathers after three straight appearances.
    I don't think it would really be an experiment, though. Pitching one or two innings on three days rest shouldn't be any more taxing than making a regular start on four days rest. It doesn't really matter, though, because it didn't happen.

    I agree that Arroyo would probably have been the first choice to be an emergency reliever--he has done it before, and he has said he likes pitching on short rest.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    The truth is, statistically, you're always behind the eight ball when you come in to the ninth inning as the visiting team. According to the Win Expectancy calcultor, since 1977, the home team has one nearly 66% of all such games. Once the 1st runner reached, with nobody out, it rose to 71.6%. The error allowing runners on the corners made it nearly certain we'd lose (90%). Even if we'd successfully gotten the runner out, leaving the runner at second with one out, Milwaukee's chance of winning still was at 70.4%. Of course, if the error hadn't occurred and then the fly ball to right had occurred, moving the runner to third, Milwaukee's chances of winning were still nearly 65%.

    Fun little tool - it would have been better to have maintained the lead, but we all knew that.

    http://winexp.walkoffbalk.com/expectancy/search
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    Member Wheelhouse's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty's dumbest move...

    But is there worse managing than allowing a player to stay in who literally cannot swing the bat?
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill


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