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Thread: Thompson to the DL

  1. #16
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    The rushing Thompson remark (I assume you mean AA up to MLB) doesn't really have a direct effect on his shoulder. Do you mean something else by that (returning too soon from injury?)

    The 19.9 pitch per inning level does nothing for me because he only pitched a few starts, never more than 100 pitches. I have no complaints about that.
    Sure it has an effect. You take a kid who started the 2007 season in low A, you promote him all the way up to the majors at age 22 (an age where pretty much no kid is ready to handle major league hitters) by mid 2008 and suddenly he's throwing more pitches because the hitters won't bite like they did two levels ago and then he's trying to put more moxie than he's got on every pitch so he doesn't get hammered and, suddenly, ouch.

    It's not just the Reds. Almost every organization does this, but after watching it replayed time and again for decades I find it the least surprising news in the world. Hopefully it's just a pinch or fatigue, but over-promotion followed by injury is the most common tale in baseball.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  3. #17
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Sure it has an effect. You take a kid who started the 2007 season in low A, you promote him all the way up to the majors at age 22 (an age where pretty much no kid is ready to handle major league hitters) by mid 2008 and suddenly he's throwing more pitches because the hitters won't bite like they did two levels ago and then he's trying to put more moxie than he's got on every pitch so he doesn't get hammered and, suddenly, ouch.

    It's not just the Reds. Almost every organization does this, but after watching it replayed time and again for decades I find it the least surprising news in the world. Hopefully it's just a pinch or fatigue, but over-promotion followed by injury is the most common tale in baseball.
    What I saying was that pitch count is what matters, not what level you throw them at. Sure you could argue MLB pitches are thrown under higher stress I suppose, but I'd say that is not a huge issue.

  4. #18
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    What I saying was that pitch count is what matters, not what level you throw them at. Sure you could argue MLB pitches are thrown under higher stress I suppose, but I'd say that is not a huge issue.
    The guy didn't display an actual "Out" pitch in his three starts, which is why he threw about 20 pitches per Inning. When a 22-year old kid figures out that MLB hitters aren't going to bite on the junk he's serving them, you don't think that he's going to try to find another gear? Workload intensity matters.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  5. #19
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    The guy didn't display an actual "Out" pitch in his three starts, which is why he threw about 20 pitches per Inning. When a 22-year old kid figures out that MLB hitters aren't going to bite on the junk he's serving them, you don't think that he's going to try to find another gear? Workload intensity matters.
    I'm betting that while Thompson was tearing it up in AA he wasn't holding back. That said, sure...he may have tossed a wrinkle in there while in the bigs, but that is pure and I mean pure speculation. Maybe he stuck with what brought him to the bigs. Maybe not. And if he did, who is to say that is what aggravated his shoulder. Only DT and the coaching staff if that, know for sure. To speculate that being in the bigs led to the stint on the DL is just that, speculation.

  6. #20
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Sure it has an effect. You take a kid who started the 2007 season in low A, you promote him all the way up to the majors at age 22 (an age where pretty much no kid is ready to handle major league hitters) by mid 2008 and suddenly he's throwing more pitches because the hitters won't bite like they did two levels ago and then he's trying to put more moxie than he's got on every pitch so he doesn't get hammered and, suddenly, ouch.
    I agree with that, which is why I said to myself, "What are they thinking? They're going to ruin this kid's potential." Hopefully, no damage was done. I don't think it was. I'm not even going to get into the mental aspect of rushing him through that many levels so quickly.

  7. #21
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I agree with that, which is why I said to myself, "What are they thinking? They're going to ruin this kid's potential." Hopefully, no damage was done. I don't think it was. I'm not even going to get into the mental aspect of rushing him through that many levels so quickly.
    I agree on the mental aspect. That can be tough for people.

  8. #22
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I agree on the mental aspect. That can be tough for people.

    He might need Tony Soprano's shrink after this.

  9. #23
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    The mental thing is overblown imo, at least for Thompson. He saw that he COULD get hitters out in his first two starts, and that he still has work to do to be able to consistently do that. I do agree that rushing him may have contributed to his shoulder if he started over throwing to try and force the ball past hitters. Mentally, though, this isn't a case of Dumatrait or Reith, where he was slaughtered and kept getting led out for the sacrifice time and again. Bringing him up may have been a tad rash but the Reds sent him down promptly. If he was damaged mentally by that then he's too fragile to ever be a good pitcher anyway. If his shoulder is ok then I think the brief foray up will help him realize what he has to do and give him an idea to work toward bettering himself - it'll also wash away any delusions he has when he's overpowering a minor league lineup that he's "arrived".

  10. #24
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I'm betting that while Thompson was tearing it up in AA he wasn't holding back.
    There's an ocean of difference between not holding back and trying to throw pitches you can't throw. Kids hurt themselves when they start searching for stuff they haven't got. We've all seen it more times than we can count.

    How many pitches like that does it take to jostle something loose? Depends on the kid. It could be as little as one. Thompson was working harder when he went to the majors, not just on workload, but on each pitch. BTW, that sort of thing has a way of screwing up what a kid was doing well beforehand even if it doesn't injure him.

    Now, we can't prove that the promotion is what caused this ailment. We don't get to crosscheck it against an alternate reality in which the Reds don't over-promote the kid. Yet after years of having this exact same discussion about more kids than I care to remember, I'm not going to ignore the maddening persistence of this trend.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  11. #25
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post
    The mental thing is overblown imo, at least for Thompson. He saw that he COULD get hitters out in his first two starts, and that he still has work to do to be able to consistently do that. I do agree that rushing him may have contributed to his shoulder if he started over throwing to try and force the ball past hitters. Mentally, though, this isn't a case of Dumatrait or Reith, where he was slaughtered and kept getting led out for the sacrifice time and again. Bringing him up may have been a tad rash but the Reds sent him down promptly. If he was damaged mentally by that then he's too fragile to ever be a good pitcher anyway. If his shoulder is ok then I think the brief foray up will help him realize what he has to do and give him an idea to work toward bettering himself - it'll also wash away any delusions he has when he's overpowering a minor league lineup that he's "arrived".

    Well said.

  12. #26
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Thompson to the DL

    I got a Daryl Thompson update from Terry Reynolds, the club's director of player development. It sounds like the shoulder is coming along well.

    "He's about halfway through his throwing program," Reynolds said. "Everything's been very position. He should be rejoining the rotation in the next 10 days or so."

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com
    I miss Adam Dunn.


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