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Thread: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

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    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Reds relievers feeling weathered
    Cincinnati (48-53) vs. San Diego (38-62), Tuesday, 7:10 p.m. ET
    By Brandon Harris / MLB.com

    CINCINNATI -- The Reds are already feeling the effects of life without setup man Jared Burton.

    The Reds used reliever David Weathers to pitch in the eighth inning of a 6-4 loss to the Padres on Monday. Though Weathers didn't give up a run -- he did give up two hits and came dangerously close -- it was the third night in a row the veteran right-hander had thrown.

    Weathers, a former closer, became the temporary setup man when Burton began resting a strained right lat muscle the week before the All-Star break. He's pitched in six of the Reds' last seven games, including all three in the series at Milwaukee before the All-Star break and three of the four games against the Mets.

    His only slipup came when he took much of the blame for a ninth-inning walk-off loss to the Brewers on July 13. More than anything, though, Reds manager Dusty Baker is concerned with Weathers' -- and the rest of the bullpen's -- workload.

    "That's three days in a row for him," Baker said. "We have to give [closer Francisco Cordero] a breather, too. Hopefully, [Tuesday] we can get a complete game. We need it badly because he needs a blow and Coco needs a mental and physical blow. We'll have to go to some other guys in the bullpen."

    But many of those "other guys" have been working, too. Mike Lincoln pitched three of the four games against the Mets, as did Jeremy Affeldt and Bill Bray. Gary Majewski pitched Sunday in the series finale against New York, but he threw in relief Monday night. Pitching Tuesday would give him three consecutive pitching nights, which Baker prefers to avoid with any member of the bullpen.

    The most rested member of the bullpen is Todd Coffey, who hasn't thrown in a game since Friday night when he was still pitching for Triple-A Louisville. He'd been at Louisville since April 28, but was called up Saturday to fill Burton's roster spot.
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Perhaps Cueto could just go ahead and toss a perfecto and give everyone the night off.

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Isn't it weird that they all need a rest within a week or so of the ASB?
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    It's because, in my opinion, Baker has a caste system whereby guys like Coffey and Majewski never get meaningful innings. I think you need to try to keep everybody sharp with an occasional high leverage situation, and in turn this allows you to rest your top guys with some consistency.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Code:
    #  YEAR NAME          AGE  IP     H9    BB9   SO9   HR9 
    1. 2008 Jared Burton   27  48.3  8.38  3.17  9.31  0.56 
    2. 2008 Jeremy Affeldt 29  48.3  9.31  3.54  9.50  1.30 
    3. 2008 Mike Lincoln   33  46.3  7.38  2.53  8.16  1.36 
    4. 2008 F. Cordero     33  46.0  7.63  5.48  9.59  0.78 
    5. 2008 David Weathers 38  43.0  9.84  3.98  6.07  1.05 
    6. 2008 Bill Bray      25  31.3  8.33  4.88  9.77  0.57 
    7. 2008 Gary Majewski  28  17.3 12.46  2.08  5.19  0.52 
    8. 2008 Todd Coffey    27  15.3 10.57  3.52  2.93  1.76
    Observations...

    Burton, Cordero and Weathers, guys who are pitching two and three batters at a time, have as many IP as Affeldt and Lincoln who are more likely to pitch two and three innings at a time.

    Cordero's BB/9 is wacky high but he's got a higher K/9 than Burton and the 2nd highest on the team. Meanwhile he has the lowest H/9 of the bullpen staff. As they say, walks will haunt.

    Burton, if he contiunes getting innings at the same pace in the remaining 61 games, will tally up 77 innings pitched. He pitched 62 in 2007, 74.2 in 2006 and 55.3 in 2005. So he's "pitching more" than he's used too, but is 3 more IP over his highest yearly really anything to worry about?

    What I do worry about is the "Dick Pole" effect. As has long been said about batting coaches screwing with Dunns approach at the plate, I hope to hell the Reds, and Dickey boy specifically, aren't over-coaching the young arms. Hard to quantifiy anything there, but I have little to no faith that the brain-trust of Baker, Pole and Spiers aren't meddling every little chance they get.

    Lastly, the starting rotation has been putting a lot of pressure on the bullpen. The big 4 of Volquez, Harrang, Cueto and Arroyo have averaged 6.05, 6.26, 5.85 and 5.3 IP per start this year. Further, you have another 21 starts when the SP averaged 4.5 IP or less. (Fogg, Belisle, Bailey and Thompson). I understand these are averages, but when only two of your starting rotation can be counted on to get past the 5th inning, you know you are going to burn up arms in the pen.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 07-22-2008 at 07:54 PM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    It's because, in my opinion, Baker has a caste system whereby guys like Coffey and Majewski never get meaningful innings.
    You mean Baker likes to use his best relievers when the game is on the line, trusting the crap to only pitch when it matters less.

    What could Baker be thinking?????

    Why would any manager want to use Coffey and majewski in meaningful innings, unless he had no choice?

    And wouldn't you be the first to complain when Majewski showed up in the 9th inning to close out a Reds one run win?

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    You mean Baker likes to use his best relievers when the game is on the line, trusting the crap to only pitch when it matters less.

    What could Baker be thinking?????

    Why would any manager want to use Coffey and majewski in meaningful innings, unless he had no choice?
    You play 162 games. You can't run a staff with 1 guy who pitches a meaningful 8th most of the time and only 1 guy handling save situations in the ninth. Baker has tried to do that. At the same time, he's buried guys so they don't pitch for 5+ days at a time (Fogg was idle for weeks earlier in the year). It's all a recipe for burning guys out.

    They're all major leaguers. If you can't trust them to throw a scoreless inning at least half the time, they shouldn't be there.

    And wouldn't you be the first to complain when Majewski showed up in the 9th inning to close out a Reds one run win?
    Nope. Zero basis for that attack.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    You play 162 games. You can't run a staff with 1 guy who pitches a meaningful 8th most of the time and only 1 guy handling save situations in the ninth.
    100% of pitching staffs in the majors work that way.

    At least, if they have successful pitchers on the team.

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    100% of pitching staffs in the majors work that way.

    At least, if they have successful pitchers on the team.
    Tony LaRussa says
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    Re: Looks like we'll be seeing Coffey tonight.... Reds relievers tired...

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Clark View Post
    Tony LaRussa says

    Larussa has a very bad bullpen. When he has a set closer, he loves to operate like this.

    He falls squarely in what I said.


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