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Thread: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

  1. #16
    Member WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Hard to make moves when no one wants what you have unless you give it away. I think Walt is smart enough to realize that and will do his work prior to the start of the 2009 season.
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  3. #17
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    There's not a whole lot he can do prior to the trade deadline, as it seems to be a buyer's market. I think his honeymoon should last through the off-season. We should give him a chance to show what he can do, at least that long.

  4. #18
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by KoryMac5 View Post
    Whenever someone takes over a position at the top whether it be a coach or GM they are usually given a grace period. How long will this grace period be for Walt?

    My guess is that it is over after the trade deadline.
    No offense, but don't you think it's kinda ridiculous to not even give the man one offseason to build his team?
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  5. #19
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Walt obviously deserves a couple years to build his team but I've gotta say, I'm going to be pretty ticked if he doesn't make any moves before the deadline. Affeldt, Weathers, and Ross are all rumored to be drawing interested from teams and should be dealt IMO. Losing those three doesn't hurt the team.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #20
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    He never had one with me. He was a hired gun that has not had a single bullet. I still can't figure out why Wayne Krivsky was fired. The losing was going to stop, but I haven't seen it yet. Jocketty has not done anything as the GM of the Reds. If Krivsky had sat around for months and done nothing, he would be castrated by this board. All the talk about Krivsky not knowing how to build a bullpen has turned out to be BS just as I thought. The Reds have one of the better pens in the NL.

    I hope that Jocketty gets it going soon.
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  7. #21
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    He never had one with me. He was a hired gun that has not had a single bullet. I still can't figure out why Wayne Krivsky was fired. The losing was going to stop, but I haven't seen it yet. Jocketty has not done anything as the GM of the Reds. If Krivsky had sat around for months and done nothing, he would be castrated by this board. All the talk about Krivsky not knowing how to build a bullpen has turned out to be BS just as I thought. The Reds have one of the better pens in the NL.

    I hope that Jocketty gets it going soon.
    This is what I don't understand. If Jocketty's big plan is to sit around and shepherd the growth of the young talent we already have, then there was no need to fire Krivsky in the first place.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #22
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    I suggest the solution to this lies in the lack of value of Weathers, Affeldt, and Ross. I suspect GM's on the other side of potential trades for those guys consider the salary relief they'd be giving the Reds more than enough compensation. Of course they'll throw in some non-prospect "prospects" to make the deal cosmetic. In short, I suggest the problem is less in Walt than in the quality of talent available on this ballclub.

  9. #23
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Walt Jocketty moves since taking over as Reds GM (not including the 2008 amateur draft):

    ACQUIRED IN TRADE
    cash (for Justin Lehr)
    cash (for Tom Shearn)
    cash considerations (for Jim Brower)
    Tom Collaro (for future considerations)
    Aaron Herr (for future considerations)
    PTBNL or cash (for Cody Strait)
    PTBNL or cash (for Carlos Guevara)

    MINOR LEAGUE FREE AGENT
    Rob Mackowiak

    CLAIMED OFF WAIVERS
    Andy Phillips

    DEPARTED IN TRADE
    Justin Lehr (for cash)
    Tom Shearn (for cash)
    Jim Brower (for cash considerations)
    future considerations (for Tom Collaro)
    future considerations (for Aaron Herr)
    Cody Strait (for PTBNL or cash)
    Carlos Guevara (for PTBNL or cash)

    DEPARTED THROUGH WAIVERS
    Andy Phillips

    RELEASED
    Kevin Gunter
    Scott Sauerbeck
    Luis Soto
    Juan Castro
    Scott Hatteberg
    Chandler Power
    Tom Fiebig
    James Morris
    Andy Green

  10. #24
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    No offense, but don't you think it's kinda ridiculous to not even give the man one offseason to build his team?
    No offense taken the point of the thread was to guage the opinions of fellow posters on how long the honeymoon will be.

    I think it ends after the deadline passes. If the Reds do nothing and the losing continues the heat will get turned up and the honeymoon will be over. When Dunn walks people may start asking for a divorce.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.

  11. #25
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    He never had one with me. He was a hired gun that has not had a single bullet. I still can't figure out why Wayne Krivsky was fired. The losing was going to stop, but I haven't seen it yet. Jocketty has not done anything as the GM of the Reds. If Krivsky had sat around for months and done nothing, he would be castrated by this board. All the talk about Krivsky not knowing how to build a bullpen has turned out to be BS just as I thought. The Reds have one of the better pens in the NL.

    I hope that Jocketty gets it going soon.
    It only took Krivsky over two years, tens of millions of dollars and untold man hours to build this stellar pen. It also cost the team its offense.

    Bottom line is that the entire product is still manure. Wayne's backers have often not cared about the entire team/organization and only cared about specific moves/characteristics/players to "prove" Wayne's worth. Who cares that this team, largely constructed by Wayne, is embarrassing themselves on a nightly basis? Did you see that bullpen?

    Give me a winning team and you can keep Phillips, Hamilton/Volquez and the bullpen.

  12. #26
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    There's not a whole lot he can do prior to the trade deadline, as it seems to be a buyer's market. I think his honeymoon should last through the off-season. We should give him a chance to show what he can do, at least that long.
    He should be given through the life of his contract, as should Baker. It's what I argued that Krivsky should have been afforded as well. Many of us have said that this organization needs some stability and long range movement, not the revolving door we've had for years now. Jocketty's here and he should be given the time his contract calls for. Clearly much work remains and to bring in yet another GM or manager will just keep us rolling back.
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  13. #27
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It only took Krivsky over two years, tens of millions of dollars and untold man hours to build this stellar pen. It also cost the team its offense.

    Bottom line is that the entire product is still manure. Wayne's backers have often not cared about the entire team/organization and only cared about specific moves/characteristics/players to "prove" Wayne's worth. Who cares that this team, largely constructed by Wayne, is embarrassing themselves on a nightly basis? Did you see that bullpen?

    Give me a winning team and you can keep Phillips, Hamilton/Volquez and the bullpen.
    I won't argue that the team is putrid right now, but I for one, argued that Krivsky was working on the entire organization and it was bolstered during his tenure. I'm not interested in turning this thread into another WK argument because what is done is done. But this organization needs to stop the darn revolving door and stabilize everything in its management to put championship baseball back in the park, top to bottom. Running Jocketty off (or Baker) isn't going to do it. But Jocketty has a heckuva a lot to work with. The trouble, it seems to me, is that the market has changed dramaticaly and old assumptions aren't working. But please don't accuse those of us who defended Krivsky of not seeing the entire picture. That was our main arguement.
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  14. #28
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It only took Krivsky over two years, tens of millions of dollars and untold man hours to build this stellar pen. It also cost the team its offense.
    Would you mind naming the offense the Reds gave up to get the third-best bullpen in the National League? This offense would be so much better with Austin Kearns (.215/.315/.318), Felipe Lopez (.235/.307/.313), and Chris Denorfia (.260/.339/.300)?

  15. #29
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    Would you mind naming the offense the Reds gave up to get the third-best bullpen in the National League? This offense would be so much better with Austin Kearns (.215/.315/.318), Felipe Lopez (.235/.307/.313), and Chris Denorfia (.260/.339/.300)?
    Do you think he could have improved the offense at all with the money/players used to obtain Cordero, Stanton, Mercker, Fogg, Cormier, Yan, Majewski, Bray, Affeldt, etc?

  16. #30
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I won't argue that the team is putrid right now, but I for one, argued that Krivsky was working on the entire organization and it was bolstered during his tenure. I'm not interested in turning this thread into another WK argument because what is done is done. But this organization needs to stop the darn revolving door and stabilize everything in its management to put championship baseball back in the park, top to bottom. Running Jocketty off (or Baker) isn't going to do it. But Jocketty has a heckuva a lot to work with. The trouble, it seems to me, is that the market has changed dramaticaly and old assumptions aren't working. But please don't accuse those of us who defended Krivsky of not seeing the entire picture. That was our main arguement.
    I agree that the revolving door needed to stop. But giving people extra time will either move the team further ahead or drop the team even further back. I wasn't a fan of what he was doing and I think that his "successes" had more to do with luck than talent. Giving him more time, IMO, would have been a bad thing in this case.


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