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Thread: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

  1. #31
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Hard to make moves when no one wants what you have unless you give it away. I think Walt is smart enough to realize that and will do his work prior to the start of the 2009 season.
    No one is going to give up quality for what Jocketty is selling.

    Everyone is pushing for deals, but IMO, any deal Walt makes, we're not going to like. Let's face it. He's not going to be able to dump guys like Fogg, Arroyo, Patterson, Valentin, Griffey, and Weathers and land all these superstar types that will help us reel off 30 straight wins and shoot to the top of the standings.

    Why make a deal just for the sake of making a deal?
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

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  3. #32
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It only took Krivsky over two years, tens of millions of dollars and untold man hours to build this stellar pen. It also cost the team its offense.
    I thought the only offense the Reds are missing this year over last is Josh Hamilton and Scott Hatteburg. Other position players are the same, aren't they?

  4. #33
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    To echo others, Walt Jocketty has yet to take over this franchise in terms of remaking the roster.

    Perhaps he'll get a "honeymoon" when he finally does something.
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  5. #34
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    I say his honeymoon is over. That's not to say he should be fired but that in the eyes of many fans, the Reds are no better off now than they were the day he took over. That's short term thinking but we live in an age of that.

    His approval rating will rise and fall with the deals he makes and the results on the field but I'd say his honeymoon is over.
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  6. #35
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    I'd be thrilled with swapping a pair of mediocre Low-A players ... just to know that WJ is still alive

  7. #36
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    He should be given through the life of his contract, as should Baker. It's what I argued that Krivsky should have been afforded as well. Many of us have said that this organization needs some stability and long range movement, not the revolving door we've had for years now. Jocketty's here and he should be given the time his contract calls for. Clearly much work remains and to bring in yet another GM or manager will just keep us rolling back.
    Absolutely. Give them time to do something. As everyone knows, I wasn't a Krivsky fan (duh!), and I felt like the path he was on was wrong, but to be truthful, he didn't really get a chance. I'm glad he didn't of course, but it's too soon to be talking replacement for either Baker or Jockkety.
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  8. #37
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    I think the honeymoon time period for any GM, manager, owner, etc. is very short in these hyper-critical web 2.0 days.

    Jocketty starts being a Reds GM now. What he can accomplish with pretty mediocre trading chips will show a.) where he wants the club to go, and b.) his GM acumen of pulling off deals.

    However, my expectations are low. The Reds have a lot of flotsam and jetsam that nobody wants. And anyone they have that other teams actually do want, the Reds aren't going to deal.

    An Arroyo deal will be mostly to get out from under the $$$. A Harang trade may actually get some new talent. But I would imagine his recent DL stint would put the kibosh on that.

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  9. #38
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Hopefully Walt has enough influence with Jocketty to stay for a good while. I don't care about fans' honeymoon periods. For the fans, Walt's honeymoon ended the day after he took over. It was maybe two weeks after he started that we started seeing posts complaining that he wasn't making moves. The Reds need a stable ship for a while to have a chance to turn things around.

  10. #39
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Walt is Castellini's man. Krivsky's days were numbered the day Jocketty left St. Louis.

    "The losing stops now" was right up there with "Mission Accomplished" for accuracy and long term comedic value.

    Walt is Bob's man. He's going to get as long as he wants the job.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  11. #40
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by durl View Post
    I thought the only offense the Reds are missing this year over last is Josh Hamilton and Scott Hatteburg. Other position players are the same, aren't they?
    True, but that still would fall on the GM. A successful GM needs to be able to assess his team's needs before they become a painful reality and fix them. Wayne may have thought the offense was OK and the bullpen needed fixing. He neglected upgrading the offense and spend millions on his pen. He got the pen, now the offense sucks. Is that not his fault?

    I think you are misinterpreting what I am saying...I'm not saying that he traded his entire offense for a good bullpen. I am saying that he upgraded the bullpen at the cost of the rest of the roster. Money spent on Cordero and others came from the bucket that would also pay for starting pitching and offense.

  12. #41
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Absolutely. Give them time to do something. As everyone knows, I wasn't a Krivsky fan (duh!), and I felt like the path he was on was wrong, but to be truthful, he didn't really get a chance. I'm glad he didn't of course, but it's too soon to be talking replacement for either Baker or Jockkety.
    Exactly. I feel that every day with Wayne was an extra day we went in the wrong direction.

  13. #42
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Walt is Castellini's man. Krivsky's days were numbered the day Jocketty left St. Louis.
    Actually I'd say Krvisky's days were OVER the day Walt hit town, when he was hired as "special adviser" is what I consider to be his first day as GM, titles and lip service are irrelevant.
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  14. #43
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62 View Post
    Walt is Castellini's man. Krivsky's days were numbered the day Jocketty left St. Louis.

    "The losing stops now" was right up there with "Mission Accomplished" for accuracy and long term comedic value.

    Walt is Bob's man. He's going to get as long as he wants the job.
    You're making way too much sense.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  15. #44
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    It only took Krivsky over two years, tens of millions of dollars and untold man hours to build this stellar pen. It also cost the team its offense.

    Bottom line is that the entire product is still manure.

    Wayne's backers have often not cared about the entire team/organization and only cared about specific moves/characteristics/players to "prove" Wayne's worth.

    Who cares that this team, largely constructed by Wayne, is embarrassing themselves on a nightly basis? Did you see that bullpen?

    Give me a winning team and you can keep Phillips, Hamilton/Volquez and the bullpen.


    *I am having a hard time seeing this Reds offense in comparison to itís competitors most years, and I am having a bigger problem seeing how the offense mattered in order of importance when every year the Reds allowed more runs than they scored.

    * In these seven seasons Cincinnati doesnít show the amount of offense in runs scored that Texas does. Though both show some sort of offense, neither teams offense mattered because they lacked the requisite pitching to compete, as indicated by the games behind in most years.

    * Most of the seasons here show that the Reds had less offense than their immediate competition in the Central division.

    * Other than the 05 season where the Reds were 27 games behind, the best offensive showing for the Reds in runs scored was 2007 in the past seven seasons.

    * Only in 06 did the Reds finish somewhat close, how much offense, pitching and defense could they have had prior to that year in comparison to their nearest competitors in the Central division?

    * It appears that the immediate competition was the one that had the offense.

    * Every season shown here, shows the Reds allowed more runs than they scored, that would indicate that they had a problem with pitching and defense, not offense, yet their immediate competitors were better than the Reds on offense and defense.

    * The argument for offensive become dubious when we look at the alleged offense of Cincinnati and the offense of Texas when neither had pitching, the offense becomes null and void. If that is true, any general manager that pursues pitching and defense over an inadequate offense would be doing the right thing


    The 2008 year for the Reds should have been a year of improvement with the additions of Votto and Bruce. Then there was the additions of Patterson and Bako to go along with old fan favorites Freel, Hopper and Hatteberg, eventually CF leadoff, SS batted second, Respect batter third, free swinger hit cleanup, while the guys that could actually get on base lost AB/PA to them. So I know what happened to the alleged offense in 08
    Code:
    2008		W  L  PCT 	GB		RS  RA
    Cincinnati 	50 56 .472 	11.5 		461 526
    Texas 		54 51 .514 	10.5 		585 616
    
    2007
    Chicago Cubs 	85 77 .525 	- 		752 690 
    Milwaukee 	83 79 .512 	2 		801 776 
    St. Louis 	78 84 .481 	7 		725 829 
    Houston 	73 89 .451 	12 		723 813
    
    Cincinnati 	72 90 .444 	13 		783 853
    Texas 		75 87 .463 	19 		816 844
    
    2006
    St. Louis 	83 78 .516 	- 		781 762 
    Houston 	82 80 .506 	1.5 		735 719
    
    Cincinnati 	80 82 .494 	3.5 		749 801
    Texas 		80 82 .494 	13  		835 784
    
    2005
    St. Louis 	100 62 .617 	- 		805 634 
    Houston 	89 73 .549 	11  		693 609 
    Milwaukee 	81 81 .500 	19 		726 697 
    Chicago Cubs 79 83 .488 	21 		703 714
    
    Cincinnati 	73 89 .451 	27 		820 889
    Texas 		79 83 .488 	16 		865 858
    
    2004
    St. Louis 	105 57 .644 	- 		855 659 
    Houston 	92 70 .564 	13 		803 698 
    Chicago Cubs 	89 73 .536 	16 		789 665
    
    Cincinnati 	76 86 .466 	29 		750 907
    Texas 		89 73 .539  	3  		860 794
    
    2003
    Chicago Cubs 	88 74 .530 	-  		725 683 
    Houston 	87 75 .534 	1 		805 677 
    St. Louis 	85 77 .518 	3 		876 796 
    Pittsburgh 	75 87 .446 	13 		753 801
    
    Cincinnati 	69 93 .421 	19 		694 885
    Texas 		71 91 .438 	25 		826 969
    
    2002
    St. Louis 	97 65 .591 	- 		787 648
    Houston 	84 78 .515 	13 		749 695
    
    Cincinnati 	78 84 .476 	19 		709 774
    Texas 		72 90 .434 	31 		843 882
    Where is this offense that the Reds were suppose to have had, and just how good could it have been? The Reds were a lot of games back 19, 19, 29, 27, then in 06 3.5, 07, 13 games behind the competition. I just don't see the offense before.

  16. #45
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: How long will Walt's honeymoon last?

    Quote Originally Posted by KronoRed View Post
    Actually I'd say Krvisky's days were OVER the day Walt hit town, when he was hired as "special adviser" is what I consider to be his first day as GM, titles and lip service are irrelevant.
    In addition to that Walt with many years experience, had just a few months vacation, from Oct of 07 to Jan of 08, two months, he should have been sharp as a tack with his GM skills that started in Jan 08 as you have indicated.


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