A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

[LouisvilleCARDS]

I keep reading how Reds management aren't "blown away" with trade offers for certain guys like Affeldt, Weathers, etc. Really, what do you EXPECT for these guys? If some of these one year players aren't traded for SOMETHING, any decent young minor leaguer, this management must be as stupid as it looks.

The year is over. We're not rallying. What is the use of keeping these one off players around? It's like if you have a yard sale on its last day, and you have all this crap you're going to throw out if someone doesn't buy. You have a tag on an old lamp to sell it for $8.00 and someone offers you $5.00, and you say "no thanks, $8.00 or nothing" and they leave. Then you throw the lamp in the trash.

Really, thats the ridiculous logic of Reds management right now. In even the most ridiculous example, say if ANYONE wanted Corey Patterson - if you offered to pay the rest of his salary for the year and traded that for a decent minor leaguer, why would you not do it? Same with other mediocre players who have salary coming to them for the rest of the year .. ::cough:: Griffey ::cough::.

Reds management doesn't seem to grasp the concept of sunk cost. If Griffey plays here the rest of the year, he's being paid. If he sits the bench, he's being paid. If he's injured, he's being paid. In all scenarios, the Reds aren't making the playoffs. So why the ridiculousness over if the guy found a place he would go to, and they wanted you to pay his salary for the rest of the year for a couple of prospects? You'll be paying it ANYWAY, with NO reward. At least this way you'll be paying for something in the future, instead of an aging player who won't help you achieve anythnig the rest of the year.

This management drives me up a wall. It seems like no one seems to grasp these simple concepts.

[Griffey012]

Jocketty - 6 NL Central Championships, 2 NLCS Titles, 1 World Series Title
Reds during that periond - uhhhh nothing, oh yeah we had a 1 game playoff once

I am going to go ahead and trust Jocketty. Did you ever think that maybe the prospects we could get in return for our players nobody wants are not as good as the prospects we already have at those positions?

[LouisvilleCARDS]

Jocketty - 6 NL Central Championships, 2 NLCS Titles, 1 World Series Title
Reds during that periond - uhhhh nothing, oh yeah we had a 1 game playoff once

I am going to go ahead and trust Jocketty. Did you ever think that maybe the prospects we could get in return for our players nobody wants are not as good as the prospects we already have at those positions?

Did you even read what I posted? Why, under any circumstance, would you take NOTHING versus SOMETHING. If you can explain that to me, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

[Kingspoint]

Jocketty - 6 NL Central Championships, 2 NLCS Titles, 1 World Series Title
Reds during that periond - uhhhh nothing, oh yeah we had a 1 game playoff once

All purchased with Tens of Millions of dollars through Free Agency or players that were on the verge of Free Agency that commanded top dollar and he traded for them. He does not have a reputation for identifying and finding younger talent in exchange for current major league players, such as Krivsky did. This is the situation that the REDS are in. He's proving right now that he still does not have a reputation for doing so.

I'm very pleased though with how he's handling the current pitching situations of Harang and Thompson and Bailey.

[Griffey012]

All purchased with Tens of Millions of dollars through Free Agency or players that were on the verge of Free Agency that commanded top dollar and he traded for them. He does not have a reputation for identifying and finding younger talent in exchange for current major league players, such as Krivsky did. This is the situation that the REDS are in. He's proving right now that he still does not have a reputation for doing so.

I'm very pleased though with how he's handling the current pitching situations of Harang and Thompson and Bailey.

I'll agree with you there, but many times his bigger free agent acquisitions were very productive in the Cards Uni, and they were typically 1 or 2 pieces away and he was a buyer instead of a seller. He did pluck Wainwright for J.D. Drew. Drafted Drew, Pujols, traded not much for a young Renteria, drafted Matt Morris, but the key thing is that Jocketty never gets the bad side of a trade or if so it rarely happens. He gets rid of and acquires guys at the right time for the right packages.

So to judge him and say he doesn't have the knack for young talent is a little extreme, he was always in a win now mode in St. Louis with good teams, and never gave up good young talent outside of Dan Haren. He also typically didn't overpay and hang onto players too long, something Krivsky liked to do. And in retrospect, most of Krivsky's moves for good young talent involvedpicking up players for nothin ala Phillips, Keppinger, etc. His deadline dishoffs haven't brought much successful young talent, but the jury is still out on some of the players.

[kpresidente]

All purchased with Tens of Millions of dollars through Free Agency or players that were on the verge of Free Agency that commanded top dollar and he traded for them. He does not have a reputation for identifying and finding younger talent in exchange for current major league players, such as Krivsky did. This is the situation that the REDS are in. He's proving right now that he still does not have a reputation for doing so.

I'm very pleased though with how he's handling the current pitching situations of Harang and Thompson and Bailey.

Looking at things with my rose-colored glasses on, I'd say the transition from WK to Jocketty was perfect timing. WK did have a nose finding hidden talent. He came from being an assistant GM, where his job was probably to scour the bottom of the barrel while his boss handled the real negotiations. And I think he did a pretty good job of stocking the organization with decent talent. We have a ton of great role-players and B-grade prospects.

But WK floundered when it came to FA acquisitions and extensions. The only one that worked out from him so far was Phillips, and he hasn't hit his payday yet. We'll revisit it in a couple years when he's making $10M+.

Now, though, we need better talent at the top end, and Jocketty is probably as good a guy as any to be pulling those strings, based on his record in STL.

[Griffey012]

Where is your proof that they can even get ANYTHING for half the players you mentioned? Would you really want to trade Weathers for a bag of baseball and not even be able to field a competitive team. Why don't we pay Dunn's, Griffey's, Weather's, Affeldt's, and Ross's salaries and trade them for 5 cases of PBR.

And if after whatever trade they can get worked out the first baseman prospect they are getting is not as good as the first base prospect we have at A ball, then it isn't really even anything your getting.

[LouisvilleCARDS]

Where is your proof that they can even get ANYTHING for half the players you mentioned? Would you really want to trade Weathers for a bag of baseball and not even be able to field a competitive team. Why don't we pay Dunn's, Griffey's, Weather's, Affeldt's, and Ross's salaries and trade them for 5 cases of PBR.

And if after whatever trade they can get worked out the first baseman prospect they are getting is not as good as the first base prospect we have at A ball, then it isn't really even anything your getting.

Unless you work in the Reds baseball office, no one knows what is truly being offered. Based on the rumors and the comments I've been reading that there's no offers that are "blowing" the Reds away for these players - well what do they expect for fairly average bullpen arms? I know in the past at least, the Reds has no problem trading extra pieces. I find it hard to beleive only a "bag of baseballs" is being offered.

If there's a young prospect who has some upside on any level, why not trade for them? I doubt they're being offered the .200 A batter or something like you make it sound. Any reasonable guys we can get for 1 year bullpen arms or starter like Fogg should be taken.

[Griffey012]

Unless you work in the Reds baseball office, no one knows what is truly being offered. Based on the rumors and the comments I've been reading that there's no offers that are "blowing" the Reds away for these players - well what do they expect for fairly average bullpen arms? I know in the past at least, the Reds has no problem trading extra pieces. I find it hard to beleive only a "bag of baseballs" is being offered.

If there's a young prospect who has some upside on any level, why not trade for them? I doubt they're being offered the .200 A batter or something like you make it sound. Any reasonable guys we can get for 1 year bullpen arms or starter like Fogg should be taken.

Well management is driving you nuts because they can't grip the idea of a sunk costs, so where is your insider data that tell you they aren't trying to do this with CPatt, Griffey, etc?

[captainmorgan07]

Let's just not give it all away here. If your trading someone you either get value or you dump salary. The reds definitely don't need to dump salary. The pieces on this team aren't exactly being highly sough after. Doing a deal just to do a deal would be counterproductive.

[dlittle58]

Can anyone figure out why C-Patt is still leading off for us? I would never ever question Walt again if he could figure out a way to get Patterson out of town...

[Dunnateher]

Affeldt and Fogg are insurance Dusty doesn't Pryorize our young arms. Johnny and Volq. both need to be shut down in a month or so.

[HeatherC1212]

Can anyone figure out why C-Patt is still leading off for us? I would never ever question Walt again if he could figure out a way to get Patterson out of town...

Dude, it's been one game. Tonight is the first time Corey's even started a game for the Reds in quite some time. He's only playing CF tonight so Bruce can be in RF while Junior gets the night off. He'll be back on the bench tomorrow when Junior is back in the lineup.

And for the record, I'm totally on board with trading a few guys to get some pieces for the future of the team but I'm not on the boat with giving guys away and getting little value in return. Jocketty has been in this business for a long time and I trust him to make good decisions here at the deadline.

[LouisvilleCARDS]

All of the Reds key trade chips -- Adam Dunn, David Weathers, David Ross, Affeldt, etc. -- seem likely to remain when Aug. 1 rolls around. The Reds haven't been too impressed with the offers they've gotten to this point.

"I don't anticipate anything, unless somebody comes along with something that'll knock your socks off," Reds manager Dusty Baker said on Sunday. "Right now, there are a lot of people wanting to take some of our guys. It's cherry picking time, and they won't give you a whole bunch back. They say, 'Well, we'll take the salary off your hands. We're going places.' But we're trying to go places, too."

Dusty's quote, not mine. Doesn't sound too much like they're trying to do anything, except overvaluing the players. I doubt many teams are trying to "knock your socks off" with an offer for fairly mediocre players. And apparently the only place we're going is to the bottom of the NL Central at this pace. Sorry - we've tried with thise players for enough time, and where have they got us? 8 games under .500. It's time to drop them and see what we can do without them.

[Ohioballplayer]

Uh Heather no, CPatt started sunday also, I was there and the whole team is ridiculous!!!

We have let other people go that have better batting avg's that .186, Dusty is keeping him here because Freel and Hopper are hurt, I am just tired of the Reds period.