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Thread: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

  1. #1
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    A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    I keep reading how Reds management aren't "blown away" with trade offers for certain guys like Affeldt, Weathers, etc. Really, what do you EXPECT for these guys? If some of these one year players aren't traded for SOMETHING, any decent young minor leaguer, this management must be as stupid as it looks.

    The year is over. We're not rallying. What is the use of keeping these one off players around? It's like if you have a yard sale on its last day, and you have all this crap you're going to throw out if someone doesn't buy. You have a tag on an old lamp to sell it for $8.00 and someone offers you $5.00, and you say "no thanks, $8.00 or nothing" and they leave. Then you throw the lamp in the trash.

    Really, thats the ridiculous logic of Reds management right now. In even the most ridiculous example, say if ANYONE wanted Corey Patterson - if you offered to pay the rest of his salary for the year and traded that for a decent minor leaguer, why would you not do it? Same with other mediocre players who have salary coming to them for the rest of the year .. ::cough:: Griffey ::cough::.

    Reds management doesn't seem to grasp the concept of sunk cost. If Griffey plays here the rest of the year, he's being paid. If he sits the bench, he's being paid. If he's injured, he's being paid. In all scenarios, the Reds aren't making the playoffs. So why the ridiculousness over if the guy found a place he would go to, and they wanted you to pay his salary for the rest of the year for a couple of prospects? You'll be paying it ANYWAY, with NO reward. At least this way you'll be paying for something in the future, instead of an aging player who won't help you achieve anythnig the rest of the year.

    This management drives me up a wall. It seems like no one seems to grasp these simple concepts.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Jocketty - 6 NL Central Championships, 2 NLCS Titles, 1 World Series Title
    Reds during that periond - uhhhh nothing, oh yeah we had a 1 game playoff once

    I am going to go ahead and trust Jocketty. Did you ever think that maybe the prospects we could get in return for our players nobody wants are not as good as the prospects we already have at those positions?

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Jocketty - 6 NL Central Championships, 2 NLCS Titles, 1 World Series Title
    Reds during that periond - uhhhh nothing, oh yeah we had a 1 game playoff once

    I am going to go ahead and trust Jocketty. Did you ever think that maybe the prospects we could get in return for our players nobody wants are not as good as the prospects we already have at those positions?
    Did you even read what I posted? Why, under any circumstance, would you take NOTHING versus SOMETHING. If you can explain that to me, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona you might be interested in.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Where is your proof that they can even get ANYTHING for half the players you mentioned? Would you really want to trade Weathers for a bag of baseball and not even be able to field a competitive team. Why don't we pay Dunn's, Griffey's, Weather's, Affeldt's, and Ross's salaries and trade them for 5 cases of PBR.

    And if after whatever trade they can get worked out the first baseman prospect they are getting is not as good as the first base prospect we have at A ball, then it isn't really even anything your getting.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Let's just not give it all away here. If your trading someone you either get value or you dump salary. The reds definitely don't need to dump salary. The pieces on this team aren't exactly being highly sough after. Doing a deal just to do a deal would be counterproductive.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Where is your proof that they can even get ANYTHING for half the players you mentioned? Would you really want to trade Weathers for a bag of baseball and not even be able to field a competitive team. Why don't we pay Dunn's, Griffey's, Weather's, Affeldt's, and Ross's salaries and trade them for 5 cases of PBR.

    And if after whatever trade they can get worked out the first baseman prospect they are getting is not as good as the first base prospect we have at A ball, then it isn't really even anything your getting.
    Unless you work in the Reds baseball office, no one knows what is truly being offered. Based on the rumors and the comments I've been reading that there's no offers that are "blowing" the Reds away for these players - well what do they expect for fairly average bullpen arms? I know in the past at least, the Reds has no problem trading extra pieces. I find it hard to beleive only a "bag of baseballs" is being offered.

    If there's a young prospect who has some upside on any level, why not trade for them? I doubt they're being offered the .200 A batter or something like you make it sound. Any reasonable guys we can get for 1 year bullpen arms or starter like Fogg should be taken.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Can anyone figure out why C-Patt is still leading off for us? I would never ever question Walt again if he could figure out a way to get Patterson out of town...

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Affeldt and Fogg are insurance Dusty doesn't Pryorize our young arms. Johnny and Volq. both need to be shut down in a month or so.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Quote Originally Posted by LouisvilleCARDS View Post
    Unless you work in the Reds baseball office, no one knows what is truly being offered. Based on the rumors and the comments I've been reading that there's no offers that are "blowing" the Reds away for these players - well what do they expect for fairly average bullpen arms? I know in the past at least, the Reds has no problem trading extra pieces. I find it hard to beleive only a "bag of baseballs" is being offered.

    If there's a young prospect who has some upside on any level, why not trade for them? I doubt they're being offered the .200 A batter or something like you make it sound. Any reasonable guys we can get for 1 year bullpen arms or starter like Fogg should be taken.
    Well management is driving you nuts because they can't grip the idea of a sunk costs, so where is your insider data that tell you they aren't trying to do this with CPatt, Griffey, etc?

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    All of the Reds key trade chips -- Adam Dunn, David Weathers, David Ross, Affeldt, etc. -- seem likely to remain when Aug. 1 rolls around. The Reds haven't been too impressed with the offers they've gotten to this point.

    "I don't anticipate anything, unless somebody comes along with something that'll knock your socks off," Reds manager Dusty Baker said on Sunday. "Right now, there are a lot of people wanting to take some of our guys. It's cherry picking time, and they won't give you a whole bunch back. They say, 'Well, we'll take the salary off your hands. We're going places.' But we're trying to go places, too."


    Dusty's quote, not mine. Doesn't sound too much like they're trying to do anything, except overvaluing the players. I doubt many teams are trying to "knock your socks off" with an offer for fairly mediocre players. And apparently the only place we're going is to the bottom of the NL Central at this pace. Sorry - we've tried with thise players for enough time, and where have they got us? 8 games under .500. It's time to drop them and see what we can do without them.

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Quote Originally Posted by dlittle58 View Post
    Can anyone figure out why C-Patt is still leading off for us? I would never ever question Walt again if he could figure out a way to get Patterson out of town...
    Dude, it's been one game. Tonight is the first time Corey's even started a game for the Reds in quite some time. He's only playing CF tonight so Bruce can be in RF while Junior gets the night off. He'll be back on the bench tomorrow when Junior is back in the lineup.

    And for the record, I'm totally on board with trading a few guys to get some pieces for the future of the team but I'm not on the boat with giving guys away and getting little value in return. Jocketty has been in this business for a long time and I trust him to make good decisions here at the deadline.
    "I tried to play golf, but I found out I wasn't very good." -Joey Votto on his offseason hobby search

    An MLB.com reporter asked what one thing Votto couldn’t do. “I can’t skate or play hockey,” Votto said. “Well, I can skate ... but I can’t stop.”

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    Uh Heather no, CPatt started sunday also, I was there and the whole team is ridiculous!!!

    We have let other people go that have better batting avg's that .186, Dusty is keeping him here because Freel and Hopper are hurt, I am just tired of the Reds period.
    Bowled 9 300 games, semi-retired!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    I say trade anyone that doesn't fit into our plans for next year. Looking at what some people say we can get is apparently a lot less than other teams are willing to give. I remember some people on here saying we were idiots for not getting a deal done for Joe Blanton or Erik Bedard, but I bet we are all happy that didn't happen. If Walt could get deals done for Griffey, Patterson, or anyone else, I bet he would make the deal, but I bet he can't. We don't even know whether Weathers, Lincoln, and Affeldt fit into Walt's plans for next year or not. Would I like to see us deal players, only if they don't fit into our plans next year and we can get something out of them. As for Griffey, I would not give him up for nothing (ie waivers or for a prospect we know could never make the bigs) as he could retire at the end of the year and like it or not, he still brings in fans. We would have to pay his salary anyway, so why not get future operating capital from him playing. I just think, and this is my opinion, that Walt won't make any big deals until the offseason. Would I be upset if deals were made, only if it does not help us next year.
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    Skip: That was four years ago, Jack. Last season, you hit .235.
    Jack Eliot: LAST SEASON, I led this team in ninth-inning doubles in the month of August!

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    OK, so in addition to the Irrational Dunn Haters vs. Irrational Dunn Lovers, we've now got ourselves a very special Limited Time Irrational DO SOMETHING/ANYTHING vs. Irrational Stand Pat dichotomy here at our beloved RedsZone.

    Can't we just agree that there are some people in life who are stuck with this hyperactive, overstimulated Videogame Mentality, where it is not only possible, but PREFERABLE, to take any sort of random action rather than assess the actual value of that action and deem it inferior to doing nothing? And then, on the other side, can't we just agree that some people are boring and fear all change? And then shut up about it, because neither one of those two diametrically opposed sides is right, nor paying attention to the simple matter of what the Reds are actually doing?

    I mean, christ, how hard is it to wrap your head around the notion that the Reds would trade almost anyone, but only if it makes the team better? That's what they're saying, that's what they're doing, and that's neither a mad dash to act nor a stubborn unwillingness to act. It's common sense.

    I don't necessarily see a whole lot of value in standing pat because it gives us our best chance of continuing to win ballgames in 2008, but the truth is the "yard sale/lamp-in-the-trash" analogy is fatally flawed because this isn't "trash" we're talking about dumping. These are members of our 25 man roster who (with the possible exception of Patterson) are all deserving of their spots and superior to any in-house options we have in terms of playing time. So where are we "throwing them in the trash" if they're still here after deadline? We're putting them right back on the coffee table and continuing to use them until such time as we are not legally permitted to do so. Which beats living in a candle-illuminated house for the rest of the year, which is really what you're proposing if you just give away any member of this team for a less-than-prospect.

    Also: if we do eventually have to leave our players out at curbside at the end of the year, I've yet to see the trash pick-up company that leaves you sweet, sweet draft picks behind when they come by to haul away the garbage. So that's something to consider, too.

    Nobody's averse to sending our players packing if we get something for them, least of all the Reds' front office. But if that's not the kind of offers we're getting, then please explain what sense there is in making a deal that makes somebody else's team better and makes ours worse? Believe it or not, and like it or not, but that's exactly what would probably happen if we just shuttled your Griffeys or Weathers or Anybody-Not-Named-Patterson out of town at this point.


    Rick

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    Re: A last appeal for Reds management to do SOMETHING

    this is a stupid post by somone that doesnt know how baseball works

    its obvious.....THEY ARNT GETTING OFFERED DECENT MINOR LEAGUERS FOR THESE GUYS!

    Is trading Griffey or Dunn for a decent minor leaguer better than the draft picks we would recieve for them? Most likely NO


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