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Thread: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

  1. #1
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    EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Just talking offense.

    Very interesting comparison this year.

    EE -- .251BA/.339OBP/.484SLG/.823OPS

    Cantu-.291BA/.339OBP/.486SLG/.825OPS

    The OBP, SLG, and OPS numbers are virtually identical.

    EE has walked 40 times and Cantu 28.
    Cantu has 128 hits to 88 for EE.
    Cantu has 29 doubles to 20 for EE
    Home runs are 20/19 EE.

    RBI is 62 to 43 for Cantu, although he's been up more and undoubtedly gets more baserunners to knock in.

    I think this is an interesting comparison because the OPS numbers for both are virtually identical as are the OBP and SLG components. EE walks more. Cantu gets more hits. My preference would be for Cantu's year, but interested to see what others think.

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    Member jesusfan's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Cantu definitely.. Edwin would've been an awfully nice trading chip last off-season. However, virtually no one could've predicted the numbers Cantu is putting up.
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfan View Post
    Cantu definitely.. Edwin would've been an awfully nice trading chip last off-season. However, virtually no one could've predicted the numbers Cantu is putting up.
    There's the key phrase. Clearly they've been comparable so far. But hindsight is 20/20. Cantu could have just as easily been another Corey Patterson.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Passion for the game Team Clark's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfan View Post
    Cantu definitely.. Edwin would've been an awfully nice trading chip last off-season. However, virtually no one could've predicted the numbers Cantu is putting up.
    Sure you could have. Cantu had been hurt. Now he is putting up numbers similar to those when he was healthy in Tampa Bay. He produced when healthy here too.
    It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...
    Cedric 3/24/08

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    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    I know people like to rip on Edwin's defense here, but even with the range-induced errors he makes, I have to like his all-around game much more than Cantu's. Yes, Jorge has put together a nice, unexpected set of numbers this year, but that doesn't change the fact that the guy really doesn't have a position other than 1B or DH. Since the Reds have got Votto manning first for the foreseeable future, I don't think Cantu really would have had a role on this team other than benchwarmer.

    I know this thread is "just talking offense," but I'm not sure we can abstract the two parts of the game like that when talking about value to the team.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    I prefer EE's plate approach. While looking up the P/PA, I noticed that while EE has the career advantage (3.79 to 3.60), Cantu certainly has been as good, if not better than EE in that department the last few years.

    Code:
    EE vs Cantu - P/PA
    
    		Year	P/PA
    EE		2005	3.99
    		2006	3.84
    		2007	3.70
    		2008	3.75
    
    Cantu		2004	3.75
    		2005	3.29
    		2006	3.69
    		2007	3.77
    		2008	3.83
    The quandry stems from if Cantu is seeing as many, if not more, pitches per PA as EE, why is he walking drastically less? Also, is EE contact impaired (and no, not in the Drew Stubbs sense), or is EE just more selective?

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    High five! nate's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    EE: $450k
    Cantu: $500k with the Marlins but how much would he have cost the Reds in arbitration?
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post

    I know this thread is "just talking offense," but I'm not sure we can abstract the two parts of the game like that when talking about value to the team.
    Neither of these guys will be a Gold Glove finalist this year.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Runs Created
    EE 57.3. 401 TPA 14.29 per 100 PA

    Cantu 70.1, 478 TPA, 14.66 per 100 PA
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I know people like to rip on Edwin's defense here, but even with the range-induced errors he makes, I have to like his all-around game much more than Cantu's. Yes, Jorge has put together a nice, unexpected set of numbers this year, but that doesn't change the fact that the guy really doesn't have a position other than 1B or DH. Since the Reds have got Votto manning first for the foreseeable future, I don't think Cantu really would have had a role on this team other than benchwarmer.

    I know this thread is "just talking offense," but I'm not sure we can abstract the two parts of the game like that when talking about value to the team.
    But compared to other 3b in the NL, his range isn't that great. In fact I think SMcGavin posted something on his range factor being 14th in the NL.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  12. #11
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    But compared to other 3b in the NL, his range isn't that great. In fact I think SMcGavin posted something on his range factor being 14th in the NL.
    Huh. I hadn't read that. Well, anyway, my sense is that Cantu would be even worse... so he still wouldn't have a place to play, right?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    While EdE isn't exactly a gold glover at third base, I've watched enough of him and Cantu to form the opinion that Cantu is no where near the defender that EdE is. That's how awful Cantu is defensively. EdE makes the tough plays and botches the easy ones, whereas Cantu can't make the tough plays and botches the easy ones. Dude is a DH.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  14. #13
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    *Ducks for introducing Adam Dunn into another conversation*

    Isn't it interesting that the two players that have them most power on the Reds have less PA and less PA with RISP, then comparable players on other teams. Then broadcasters and less informed fans point out how low their RBI totals are and how that they have to homer to knock someone in. (Hitting a homer is a negative in these arguments). I get sick of this, I really do.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    While EdE isn't exactly a gold glover at third base, I've watched enough of him and Cantu to form the opinion that Cantu is no where near the defender that EdE is. That's how awful Cantu is defensively. EdE makes the tough plays and botches the easy ones, whereas Cantu can't make the tough plays and botches the easy ones. Dude is a DH.
    Cantu probably belongs at first base or left field.

    But with all the talk about the Reds' continued defensive woes, I'm not sure EE will stay at third base either. I've seen his athleticism, but his Fielding PCT is .919. I know that Fielding PCT is an imperfect measure, but .919?

    .900 would be one error for every 10 chances, as I understand the stat.

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    Re: EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    *Ducks for introducing Adam Dunn into another conversation*

    Isn't it interesting that the two players that have them most power on the Reds have less PA and less PA with RISP, then comparable players on other teams. Then broadcasters and less informed fans point out how low their RBI totals are and how that they have to homer to knock someone in. (Hitting a homer is a negative in these arguments). I get sick of this, I really do.
    Chris Welsh brought this up yesterday, you could've knocked me over with a feather.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski


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