EE v. Cantu 2008 offense

[Kc61]

Just talking offense.

Very interesting comparison this year.

EE -- .251BA/.339OBP/.484SLG/.823OPS

Cantu-.291BA/.339OBP/.486SLG/.825OPS

The OBP, SLG, and OPS numbers are virtually identical.

EE has walked 40 times and Cantu 28.
Cantu has 128 hits to 88 for EE.
Cantu has 29 doubles to 20 for EE
Home runs are 20/19 EE.

RBI is 62 to 43 for Cantu, although he's been up more and undoubtedly gets more baserunners to knock in.

I think this is an interesting comparison because the OPS numbers for both are virtually identical as are the OBP and SLG components. EE walks more. Cantu gets more hits. My preference would be for Cantu's year, but interested to see what others think.

[jesusfan]

Cantu definitely.. Edwin would've been an awfully nice trading chip last off-season. However, virtually no one could've predicted the numbers Cantu is putting up.

[RedsManRick]

Cantu definitely.. Edwin would've been an awfully nice trading chip last off-season. However, virtually no one could've predicted the numbers Cantu is putting up.

There's the key phrase. Clearly they've been comparable so far. But hindsight is 20/20. Cantu could have just as easily been another Corey Patterson.

[Team Clark]

Cantu definitely.. Edwin would've been an awfully nice trading chip last off-season. However, virtually no one could've predicted the numbers Cantu is putting up.

Sure you could have. Cantu had been hurt. Now he is putting up numbers similar to those when he was healthy in Tampa Bay. He produced when healthy here too.

[RedEye]

I know people like to rip on Edwin's defense here, but even with the range-induced errors he makes, I have to like his all-around game much more than Cantu's. Yes, Jorge has put together a nice, unexpected set of numbers this year, but that doesn't change the fact that the guy really doesn't have a position other than 1B or DH. Since the Reds have got Votto manning first for the foreseeable future, I don't think Cantu really would have had a role on this team other than benchwarmer.

I know this thread is "just talking offense," but I'm not sure we can abstract the two parts of the game like that when talking about value to the team.

[Highlifeman21]

I prefer EE's plate approach. While looking up the P/PA, I noticed that while EE has the career advantage (3.79 to 3.60), Cantu certainly has been as good, if not better than EE in that department the last few years.

EE vs Cantu - P/PA

		Year	P/PA
EE		2005	3.99
		2006	3.84
		2007	3.70
		2008	3.75

Cantu		2004	3.75
		2005	3.29
		2006	3.69
		2007	3.77
		2008	3.83

The quandry stems from if Cantu is seeing as many, if not more, pitches per PA as EE, why is he walking drastically less? Also, is EE contact impaired (and no, not in the Drew Stubbs sense), or is EE just more selective?

[nate]

EE: $450k
Cantu: $500k with the Marlins but how much would he have cost the Reds in arbitration?

[Kc61]

I know this thread is "just talking offense," but I'm not sure we can abstract the two parts of the game like that when talking about value to the team.

Neither of these guys will be a Gold Glove finalist this year.

[Raisor]

Runs Created
EE 57.3. 401 TPA 14.29 per 100 PA

Cantu 70.1, 478 TPA, 14.66 per 100 PA

[Hoosier Red]

I know people like to rip on Edwin's defense here, but even with the range-induced errors he makes, I have to like his all-around game much more than Cantu's. Yes, Jorge has put together a nice, unexpected set of numbers this year, but that doesn't change the fact that the guy really doesn't have a position other than 1B or DH. Since the Reds have got Votto manning first for the foreseeable future, I don't think Cantu really would have had a role on this team other than benchwarmer.

I know this thread is "just talking offense," but I'm not sure we can abstract the two parts of the game like that when talking about value to the team.

But compared to other 3b in the NL, his range isn't that great. In fact I think SMcGavin posted something on his range factor being 14th in the NL.

[RedEye]

But compared to other 3b in the NL, his range isn't that great. In fact I think SMcGavin posted something on his range factor being 14th in the NL.

Huh. I hadn't read that. Well, anyway, my sense is that Cantu would be even worse... so he still wouldn't have a place to play, right?

[OnBaseMachine]

While EdE isn't exactly a gold glover at third base, I've watched enough of him and Cantu to form the opinion that Cantu is no where near the defender that EdE is. That's how awful Cantu is defensively. EdE makes the tough plays and botches the easy ones, whereas Cantu can't make the tough plays and botches the easy ones. Dude is a DH.

[LoganBuck]

*Ducks for introducing Adam Dunn into another conversation*

Isn't it interesting that the two players that have them most power on the Reds have less PA and less PA with RISP, then comparable players on other teams. Then broadcasters and less informed fans point out how low their RBI totals are and how that they have to homer to knock someone in. (Hitting a homer is a negative in these arguments). I get sick of this, I really do.

[Kc61]

While EdE isn't exactly a gold glover at third base, I've watched enough of him and Cantu to form the opinion that Cantu is no where near the defender that EdE is. That's how awful Cantu is defensively. EdE makes the tough plays and botches the easy ones, whereas Cantu can't make the tough plays and botches the easy ones. Dude is a DH.

Cantu probably belongs at first base or left field.

But with all the talk about the Reds' continued defensive woes, I'm not sure EE will stay at third base either. I've seen his athleticism, but his Fielding PCT is .919. I know that Fielding PCT is an imperfect measure, but .919?

.900 would be one error for every 10 chances, as I understand the stat.

[Hoosier Red]

*Ducks for introducing Adam Dunn into another conversation*

Isn't it interesting that the two players that have them most power on the Reds have less PA and less PA with RISP, then comparable players on other teams. Then broadcasters and less informed fans point out how low their RBI totals are and how that they have to homer to knock someone in. (Hitting a homer is a negative in these arguments). I get sick of this, I really do.

Chris Welsh brought this up yesterday, you could've knocked me over with a feather.