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Thread: 25 man roster concerns....

  1. #1
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    25 man roster concerns....

    Okay, I understood these changes when they happened. Adding Bako to the roster because of Ross' injury before the season began. I even understood it when we kept 3 catchers on for a while after we activated Ross. I also understood it when we brought Patterson back up from Louisville when Hairston/Cabrera both went down with injuries and it was obvious that Hopper wasn't going to be ready. I get it. We were short handed and they didn't want to rush any of the kids. But why...oh why...are they still up here?

    Cabrera's back, Phillips is up, Hairston came back (temporarily apparently), Keppinger's back. Why are we still carrying 3 catchers and Corey Patterson? Patterson certainly didn't EARN his promotion from Louisville. As for the kids down at Louisville...at the beginning of the season we didn't have any viable options for CF or C. That's not true right now. Both Hannigan & Dickerson have CONSISTANTLY hit and played d all season long.

    Are the Reds deluded enough to think that Patterson and all 3 catchers are part of our long term plans? Or even for our plans for next season? One, MAYBE 2, of the catchers I can see. But 3? That's retarded.

    Even if they go with the argument that they're still trying to have a 'winning' season this year, how is Patterson and the 3 headed monster helping us get there? I don't know about players options and such, so I don't know if we can send 2 of the catchers and Patterson back to the minors or not. But if not...release them. Good god. Not only can Hannigan & Dickerson not do any worse than these guys, but at the bare minimum they have upside to them and they ARE in our future plans. I know that Jocketty was new to the franchise and all, but his learning period should be LONG over IMO. He should have seen enough to at least make these 2 simple changes. There is simply no excuse for it. None. Until they cut bait with these guys, I can't take this team seriously.


    ~I don't have the time to get into the pitching side of the 25-man roster. The hitting/defense side should be the top priority without a doubt.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 08-05-2008 at 09:15 PM.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

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    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    I doubt seriously that Corey Patterson is in this team's plans beyond the balance of this season. Likewise, I think it's highly likely that only one of the three catchers is still here next year. Despite what Dusty says, this club is merely playing out the string (and yes, even doing that, a team wants to finish as well as it can) and it makes no sense while there is no roster crunch to jettison any of these guys. When September comes, we can take a look at Dickerson and see where he fits in the scheme of things. But just to eat salary with two months left seems a needless waste at this point.
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    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I know that Jocketty was new to the franchise and all, but his learning period should be LONG over IMO. He should have seen enough to at least make these 2 simple changes. There is simply no excuse for it. None.

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    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Not only can Hannigan & Dickerson not do any worse than these guys, but at the bare minimum they have upside to them and they ARE in our future plans.
    Dickerson, maybe.

    Hanigan's about to turn 28 years old, so I don't think "upside" really applies. Depending on his ability behind the plate, he *might* be a candidate for a backup job next year. But considering it was just this year that he became a decent hitter in Triple-A, I don't think you could put him behind the plate in Cincinnati and expect anything except replacement level, and maybe not even that. I don't think it would hurt anything to take a look but he's not someone to make plans around.
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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    Dickerson, maybe.

    Hanigan's about to turn 28 years old, so I don't think "upside" really applies. Depending on his ability behind the plate, he *might* be a candidate for a backup job next year. But considering it was just this year that he became a decent hitter in Triple-A, I don't think you could put him behind the plate in Cincinnati and expect anything except replacement level, and maybe not even that. I don't think it would hurt anything to take a look but he's not someone to make plans around.
    Agreed. I shouldn't have said "upside" for Hannigan. But the point remains. Our current 3 have NOT been cutting it. Defensively OR offensively. There isn't squat out there on the FA market for catchers and the Rangers are going to be asking for a kings ransom for one of their 3 available backstops. So get Hannigan up here NOW and give the FO a chance to see if he's a workable solution for next year...and 'possibly' beyond. Of course if Mesaraco picks it up....Hannigan would be a short-term solution.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    I doubt any of the three catchers will be back next year. But what's all the worry about Dickerson and/or Hanigan? Does anybody think they're really going to improve this team? We've got a lot bigger problems than that.

  8. #7
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    I completely agree about the state of our current catching. But there's an impulse -- and we've said it many times over the years regarding many positions -- to look at the guys in the minors and say "well, they can't be any worse." Oh, yes they can.
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    Member schroomytunes's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Well I agree this team is dead...it seems as if they are ready to hang up the cleats and go home. We need to install the youth movement now to get a look at 2009. Moves that I make now:

    1)Promote Dickerson...demote Patterson.
    2)Promote Hanigan...release Bako.

    Give these guys at least 2 months to see what they can do, dont wait till September they could be solid backups for 2009.

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    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    This is why rosters expand on September 1st...So you can get a look at guys like Dickerson and Hanigan. Just because the guys you have currently playing are not Major League caliber, is no reason to bring up more players who are not...and PAY them.

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    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    One thing to keep in mind, the Bats are looking real good for a playoff spot this year. It could be an extra two weeks before Louisville's season actually ends, and some guys come up.

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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Much more important, IMO, than the Dickerson/Hanigan question is WJ's use of the remainder of the season--both here and in Louisville--to evaluate how to construct next year's bullpen. The priority now should be to build on what we have that is strong--the pitching staff--recognizing that apart from Bruce and Votto the position players are hardly worth getting attached to and can be replaced (roughly) without a lot of trouble. (This assumes Dunn's money puts him out of the question for a team needing that money to cover several eventualities.) As to the bullpen, clearly Cordero and Burton will be back, and Bray, though I think he's overrated, probably also. Weathers, Affeldt, Belisle, Coffey, Majewski will likely be gone. So we need to know: 1. What's Masset's role; 2. What can we count on--and when--from Roenicke? 3. Ditto for Pelland and Herrerra. 4. What can we count on--and when--from Watson, Fisher, Manuel, Ramirez? 5.Same for Viola, with question for him about role--reliever or starter?
    The goal is the bullpen for 2010, which I hope will look like Cordero, Burton, Roenicke, Watson, Viola (if he stays in relief role), and maybe even Stewart--with one of the others or someone brought in. Another tough, experienced reliever--like Street or Sherrill--would make a lot of sense to help get us there and provide experience for this group.

  13. #12
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Even so, it's important not to get too worked up over Hairston—as his road hitting (.257/.304/.352), he's still Jerry Hairston Jr., just a version of himself that had the benefit of getting hot in the Gap in 99 PA (.448/.495/.644). That's not a reflection of a changed level of ability, it's a nice run at the office, and it goes away with exposure to more playing time. With Keppinger active, he'll actually end up getting most of his at-bats as an outfielder, because the Reds are back in the unhappy space where Corey Patterson's playing in a post-Griffey outfield, and the game's mechanics really strongly suggest that you employ three; it's been the fashion of the day for a bit, you might say.

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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion View Post
    This is why rosters expand on September 1st...So you can get a look at guys like Dickerson and Hanigan. Just because the guys you have currently playing are not Major League caliber, is no reason to bring up more players who are not...and PAY them.
    Good point. Personally, I don't think Dickerson and Hanigan will be any better than Patterson or Bako but it might be nice to see what they can do against big league pitching. It seems to me that management has decided that these players will never be much more than AAA filler and they don't want to pay them extra to be AAA filler in the majors.

  15. #14
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    5 catchers on the 40-man. LOL.

    It would be one thing if just one of them was decent, but 5 scrubby catchers taking up 5 spots? Wacky.

  16. #15
    Designated Threadkiller LincolnparkRed's Avatar
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    Re: 25 man roster concerns....

    I dislike Dusty insistance on doing as well as possible in any given season. once you are out of it why do 70 wins matter versus 75, you still had a losing season. He places his personal record as a manager over the improvement of the orginization. He did it in Chicago in 2005 and he is doing it here. I think Walt has to mandate a change in philosiphy or we won't get to see who might play a role in 2009.
    Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled


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