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Thread: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

  1. #16
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I agree with your point, but I think many people expected Bruce to do just that. I remember comments about the James projections for Bruce, and how Bruce would replace Hamilton's bat, etc. So I think most people had very unrealistic expectations for this 21 year old.
    most young players come up and struggle. Major league pitchers will find their weakness and exploit it. I think few understand how hard the transition actually is and that very few make it seamlessly. Most young players really struggle when they first come to the big leagues ... even an uberprospect like Bruce.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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  3. #17
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    Before the season, I was hoping that Harang, Volquez and Cueto could all put up close to 200 IP and ERAs between 3.50 and 4.50. That would have made all of them above league-average starters. Needless to say, Volkie is on track to do that, while Cueto is not (although he has looked like that pitcher on and off) and Harang isn't either (mostly because of injury, although he's proven he can do it in the past). With a year under their belts, I think these numbers are realistic for the two young guys next year. And, if Aaron returns to form, I still have confidence that the 2009 rotation will be very, very solid.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #18
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    redsmetz is right. On internet boards and with fans in general, all of us, including myself, tend to live in the moment. That's the exact reason teams rarely come out and say we're going to tear down and rebuild. Right now is the worst possible time to try and analyze this team and its young players unless you can detach yourself emotionally. The angst over the Hamilton trade is an emotional response because he is gone - done - over - history while he continues to tear it up and Volquez has hit a rough patch.

    1. Volquez wasn't coming here for any other package of players. Several reports from Texas and from the Reds claim the deal was a long time in making and the Reds tried to substitute different packages but the Rangers would only give up Volquez if Hammy was part of the deal. Maybe the Reds could have gotten another arm for a different player but EV would not have been here. I believe these reports. Why not? Look at the Reds. Short of Jay Bruce, who else would the Rangers have really had any interest in? Jr at his age and salary? Dunn with his upcoming FA and salary? The Reds made Bruce sacrosanct and Hamilton was the only player left. So was the deal a mistake after all? Suddenly a whole bunch of guys are quivering on the anchor chain ready to jump ship but I'm still on board.

    2. Volquez is not a bust by a long shot. Nor is he suddenly mediocre. He was a bit lucky early on but he also got terrific run support and decent defense in those starts. I'd claim more that his team left him stranded at the dock. He's young and pitching for a bunch of guys that simply look as if they've decided to wait for the next ship to sail. The run support he got earlier and the defense behind him have evaporated - or at least, fallen back to the abysmal comedic level of play his rotation mates have had all along. It's more a wonder to me that he and Cueto haven't been even more ineffective.

    3. Young guys in most businesses I've been in, and I can't believe it's any different in sports, tend to follow the tone set by more senior, experienced members of a staff. Besides the fact that they're pitching into total innings territory where they've rarely been in a season, compressed into a shorter time span, and in brutal August heat, on a team going nowhere, for management who's publicly stated goal is just playing .500 ball. Really, a situation that tends to bring out the worst in young guys, I'd think.

  5. #19
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    Volquez is reaching a point where's he never been in the majors - 140+ innings. He was bound to tire out and start struggling at some point, same with Cueto. I'm surprised to so many people didn't see this coming. Volquez still looks like a top-of-rotation talent, he's just wearing down like most rookies pitchers do in their first full big league season. I'm not worried at all.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #20
    Worth The Wait
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake View Post

    3. Young guys in most businesses I've been in, and I can't believe it's any different in sports, tend to follow the tone set by more senior, experienced members of a staff. Besides the fact that they're pitching into total innings territory where they've rarely been in a season, compressed into a shorter time span, and in brutal August heat, on a team going nowhere, for management who's publicly stated goal is just playing .500 ball. Really, a situation that tends to bring out the worst in young guys, I'd think.
    Very valid point and it all comes back to the "losing culture" thing...and if that's the case, it sure doesn't look like it's going to be easy to solve.

  7. #21
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    yeah, well-- it's not Dusty's team.

  8. #22
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    According to Dusty...Walt says Volquez threw very FEW innings in winter ball, and is not fatigued...

    Dusty's going to check the tape and try to figure out what's wrong. Dusty thinks it's probably adjustment from the hitters and he needs to now adjust to them, again...


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  9. #23
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    from what I have seen Edinson has been making a lot more mistakes with his changeup(leaving it up)
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #24
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    returning to a normal mean is a reality... let it sink in.. let it roll around your head.. the guy was lights out for a 1/2 a season, he's in uncharted territory, he's young and he's going to experience some difficulty.

    So blame the culture, blame Dusty... but remember the mean is wicked taskmasker and returning to it occurs for 98% of most players.

  11. #25
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    I'm not worried about either Volquez or Cueto--time will tell their value. I always think pitching is a crapshoot in about half your prospects anyway. Kids are kids.

    Now the hitting--that's what worries me. But to tell you the truth, a hot Hamilton wouldn't be the answer either. The future? I will wait to see what happens this winter, but it's blek.
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  12. #26
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I'm not worried about either Volquez or Cueto--time will tell their value. I always think pitching is a crapshoot in about half your prospects anyway. Kids are kids.

    Now the hitting--that's what worries me. But to tell you the truth, a hot Hamilton wouldn't be the answer either. The future? I will wait to see what happens this winter, but it's blek.
    I agree with this. The hitting is a problem and has been. Finding league average bats to take the place of the bottom 6 guys or so (Bako, Patterson, Hopper, Janish, Valentin, Phillips) isn't as easy at it might sound. Then adding to the offense without hurting the defense? Even harder - improving the overall defense while upgrading the offense. I'm convinced a lot of the pitching problems are the result of defense. The Reds' D adds a ton of pitches, a bunch of unearned hits, and way too many free at bats to every pitcher. The only guys who have any chance of succeeding are the pure power pitchers. Even Arroyo has had to go for the K much more than he has in the past because he can't rely on the defense - and I wonder if he hasn't changed his pitching routine somewhat realizing that, and in the process disrupted himself.

  13. #27
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds are Totally Sucking the Life out of 2008 (Volquez)

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis View Post
    What? You mean my expectations of Cueto and Volquez battling for the Cy Young may have been too high? Say it ain't so.
    Darnit why can't all out young guys win the MVP? what is wrong with them????
    Go Gators!


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