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Thread: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

  1. #1
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    How dare he hold his players accountable...

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    Upton out of lineup for lack of hustle
    08/06/2008 6:58 PM ET
    By Brittany Ghiroli / MLB.com

    ST. PETERSBURG -- B.J. Upton was out of the Rays' starting lineup Wednesday afternoon, as manager Joe Maddon was miffed that the outfielder didn't run out a ground ball in Tuesday night's game.
    "When it comes down to individual effort, it takes absolutely zero talent -- zero -- to try hard and play hard every day," Maddon said. "I'm OK with physical mistakes, with mental mistakes; I'm accepting of all that. The part that I'm not accepting of is the part that you can control. And that's your effort."

    The Rays skipper was particularly upset about Upton's lack of hustle given the talk him he had with the team in Kansas City, following a similar incident with Akinori Iwamura.

    "Without any gray areas, [I] told them exactly what was going to happen," Maddon said of the meeting. "And it's happening."

    Upton gave a lackadaisical jog to first base in his final at-bat, after hitting the ball back to pitcher Edward Mujica, and Maddon would have preferred to remove the outfielder immediately but was out of position players.

    The 23-year-old Upton has often shown flashes of superior effort, including a stellar catch in the seventh inning on Tuesday, retiring Cleveland's Ben Francisco on a deep fly ball.

    "You just can't pick and choose when you put your effort out there," Maddon said. "It has be all the time."

    Typically a laid-back manager, Maddon said he addressed the matter directly following Tuesday's game and that Upton "listened" accordingly.

    "It just comes down to respect," Maddon said. "Respect for yourself and respect for the organization."

    Following Wednesday's game, Upton took no issue with Maddon's stance.

    "I didn't run it out," Upton admitted. "Lesson learned. It's over. Done with. Moved on."

    Maddon was also ready to put the situation behind the club.

    "It's a dead issue," he said. "I want to be consistent in what I say. He will be back [Thursday]."

    In Upton's place, the Rays gave recently recalled infielder Ben Zobrist a start in center field on Wednesday and inserted Willy Aybar into the shortstop role for Zobrist.

    Although the club is still without regular shortstop Jason Bartlett in the field, the infielder was in Wednesday's lineup as the designated hitter.

    During Sunday's game, Bartlett was hit by a pitch on his right index finger, and although he has taken batting practice, the shortstop sat on both Monday and Tuesday.

    "He's OK to hit, he just couldn't throw today," Maddon said.

    Bartlett was seen playing light catch prior to Wednesday's game and the Rays are hopeful he will be ready to join the defense for Thursday's game in Seattle.

    "It's soon," Maddon said of Bartlett's return to shortstop.

    Backstop Shawn Riggans -- who was also hit by a pitch in Sunday's game -- was out of Wednesday's lineup as well.

    After taking a blistering fastball in the chest, Riggans reported to be more sore on Tuesday than he was initially and the club decided to use caution with its backup catcher.

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  3. #2
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    when the Reds never called Jr on it, it didn't work well if they tried to discipline someone else(EE, Phillips).
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Even when he is gone Junior is reviled. Next he will be responsible for the slide by the REDS post July 31.

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugget View Post
    Even when he is gone Junior is reviled. Next he will be responsible for the slide by the REDS post July 31.
    It's no secret the Reds had a special set of rules for Junior and only Junior upon his arrival.

    It's not reviling a person when you're pointing out the blatantly obvious.

  6. #5
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    It's no secret the Reds had a special set of rules for Junior and only Junior upon his arrival.

    It's not reviling a person when you're pointing out the blatantly obvious.
    I never got on Jr for not running out grounders, I understood the reasoning. He had to protect his legs and why blow out a hammy just for show.

    Albeit I did complain when he would go into a HR trot and turn a double into a single because he thought the ball was going out.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I never got on Jr for not running out grounders, I understood the reasoning. He had to protect his legs and why blow out a hammy just for show.

    Albeit I did complain when he would go into a HR trot and turn a double into a single because he thought the ball was going out.
    To be honest I don't think a lot of people understood why Jr didn't run out all ground balls. However I think it set a bad example for everyone else on the club. I think the other players realized the situation Jr was in yet they thought they didn't have to run out groundballs becasue the leader didn't.

  8. #7
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    When Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford first used it, Charlie Hustle was not a compliment.

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    It's a whole lot easier for a manager on a good team to discipline player's. The team's winning, not much stress to go around, the player nods his head, bites his tongue, and accepts it (see Rollins, Jimmy).

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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    When Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford first used it, Charlie Hustle was not a compliment.
    it was a term of derision.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  11. #10
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    When Mickey Mantle and Whitey Ford first used it, Charlie Hustle was not a compliment.
    But you don't think Rose's style of game made the others on his team hustle a little bit more? Whether or not you think it matters I doubt Upton will lolly gag a ground ball for the rest of the sesaon. I doubt Rollins will be late to a team function this season.

    IMO if you allow one player jog out a gound ball or play with a lack of urgency you will see other teammates begin to adapt that style. Look at the Reds this season. Most of the veterans have played with a lack of urgency since about the 4th week of the season. The last thing you want is Votto or Bruce to adapt that playing style and have it carry on to next season.

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    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Oh, I agree that running out grounders and running out doubles are good things. Mantle and Ford were probably mocking Rose's running out walks. There's hustle, then there's Jim Edmonds-style hustle. Some of the more visible aspects of hustle are probably overrated.

  13. #12
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    [vent]
    In the grand scheme of things, what does it really matter? Say a lackluster trot costs you the game. One game on a team with no talent doesn't mean a thing. I'm not really defending Jr. here, because I think it applies across the board. This team stinks and all the hustle in the world won't get them into the playoffs. It's just going to make a segment of fans feel better about rooting for a loser.

    Whenever some incident like this occurs, someone posts the story on redszone and insinuates that this is some major problem with the Reds. Sorry, but the only problem I see on this team is a lack of talent.

    This town is just 'hustle' obsessed, and I just don't get it. I don't care about recliners and couches in the clubhouse. Playstation 3 and Xbox 360? I'm not concerned. All I care about is manufacturing runs and preventing runs. I'm of the opinion that hustle doesn't significantly affect either one. Until I see some compelling evidence to the contrary, I'll keep rolling my eyes at stories like this.
    [/vent]
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  14. #13
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    [vent]
    In the grand scheme of things, what does it really matter? Say a lackluster trot costs you the game. One game on a team with no talent doesn't mean a thing. I'm not really defending Jr. here, because I think it applies across the board. This team stinks and all the hustle in the world won't get them into the playoffs. It's just going to make a segment of fans feel better about rooting for a loser.

    Whenever some incident like this occurs, someone posts the story on redszone and insinuates that this is some major problem with the Reds. Sorry, but the only problem I see on this team is a lack of talent.

    This town is just 'hustle' obsessed, and I just don't get it. I don't care about recliners and couches in the clubhouse. Playstation 3 and Xbox 360? I'm not concerned. All I care about is manufacturing runs and preventing runs. I'm of the opinion that hustle doesn't significantly affect either one. Until I see some compelling evidence to the contrary, I'll keep rolling my eyes at stories like this.
    [/vent]
    Ok Vent

    Here is my point. The Reds have mailed it in this season. They mailed it in quite a while ago. They didn't mail it in because Jr didn't run down the line. But why is it too much to except that a professional team plays smart and hard? Why is it too much to ask that the veterans on the team play hard day in day out? Why is it too much to ask for the veterans to set a good example for the rookies?

    I understand that the season is long. I understand that after opening day most players don't feel 100%. I understand that all the travel and very few off days can wear on a player. But what I don't understand is when a player doesn't play hard. He doesn't play to the best of his abilities on a given day. If the current version of the Reds played for a high school baseball coach they would be running laps all day long for their percieved lack of effort. Losing sucks, I get that. However, it is not an excuse to not play hard. Does it matter? I don't know but you don't see the better teams playing the way the Reds are right now.

  15. #14
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    To address the Rays' manager, I'm glad he holds a young kid like Upton accountable for not running out a routine play.

    Give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile, or something like that.

    Nip apathy in the bud.

  16. #15
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon is out of hand as a manager...

    Not running out ground balls has been around since the game began. It's a long season and veterans know they need to protect themselves and conserve their bodies for the long haul. It's not nearly as bad as having a couch in the clubhouse.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.


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