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Thread: Dunn traded to DBacks

  1. #811
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Because he'd have to be offered then refuse arbitration for the Reds to get the picks, and based on how Dunn is ill-thought of by so many teams, his agent just might encourage him to take the arbitration. At least Walt got something for Dunn.
    I'd offer Dunn arbitration, as getting him for 1 year would be our best case scenario. He would have no "no trade protection" and we would have no long term risk. And it would give us another year to see if any of our prospects might me more ready in 2010.

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  3. #812
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Because he'd have to be offered then refuse arbitration for the Reds to get the picks, and based on how Dunn is ill-thought of by so many teams, his agent just might encourage him to take the arbitration. At least Walt got something for Dunn.
    Ill-thought of just like the team that traded three players to rent him for a few months?

    We know for sure that you don't like him and J.P. Ricciardi doesn't like him. Therefore, the entire world must not like him.
    Last edited by wolfboy; 08-11-2008 at 09:05 PM.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  4. #813
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    I'm a little confused......
    Ah, when in doubt, use the "Uncle Leo" defense.....

  5. #814
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    The choice between "Dunn to arb for a one year contract or draft picks" is non-existent.

    The decision was "Trade Dunn for players soon-to-contribute to a MLB roster or wait and get draft picks."

    The latter was the decision you had to make. The first was never on the table.

  6. #815
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    McCoy took Walt's little fib hook, line and sinker:



    Jocketty signed all three of his big acquisitions during the season: McGwire, Edmonds and Rolen. His suggestion that he doesn't do contracts during the season was most likely a smoke screen so he could move Dunn since he seems to have not wanted him. But lets be straight about this, it's not true that he doesn't do contracts in season and the Cincy media bought it completely (even though he never said "never" in his original quote).
    An excellent insight into cincy sports reporting.....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #816
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Because he'd have to be offered then refuse arbitration for the Reds to get the picks, and based on how Dunn is ill-thought of by so many teams, his agent just might encourage him to take the arbitration. At least Walt got something for Dunn.
    Oh for goodness sakes. If Dunn is so "ill-thought of" then there's absolutely no possible risk in offering arbitration for a one-year contract. Worst-case scenario is that an intelligent arbiter thinks differently and gives the guy 15-17M. That leaves Dunn without a no-trade clause and allows the Reds to shop him throughout at least half an offseason and most of the 2009 season without constraint as to destination. And considering the youth on the Reds' roster, paying Dunn that amount for a single year is far FAR better than paying any number of crap players millions or even 12M to their closer.

    Offering Dunn arbitration would have been a "no-lose" proposition for the Reds for the 2009 season. Worst case, you pay a potentially-tradeable player what he's worth and, best case, you have an extemely productive player signed at market value. Should Dunn decline arbitration this year, then you have the draft picks as compensation.

    The only way this deal works out is if the Reds recieved a haul that is obviously more than what the comp picks would project.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  8. #817
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Totally flabbergasted! And I don't understand why I feel this way because I felt Dunn was gone when I saw no efforts being made by this FO - other then a lot of "double speak" and PR saying how much they'd like to retain Dunn, and if you let him go you have to replace him.

    I guess Bob has changed his position on win now. Because if they are going into a full rebuild mode, then what do they have to rebuild with? If they are going the youth route, then what young talent do they have in the farm system, that isn't still in the developmental (unproven) stage, that they are going to exercise such confidence in at the ML level?

    I would really like to know WHO they are now counting on, going into the '09 season to fill some of these voids IF Castellini/Jocketty aren't going to go into the market in the off-season and try to acquire SOME of those needs?

    And I'm hoping that is what they are going to do.

    I had no problem with the Ross (Hanigan) move.

    But what is our OF now going to look like in the '09 season? There has to be some sort of acquisition made. Please tell me there will be Walt! They can't be thinking of utilizing guys like Hairston, Dickerson, and possibly Freel, in addition to Bruce? Can they?

    Then I think of who is advising Walt.... Dusty and now Bavasi.

    I have not lost faith in Jocketty with this move. Just sorely disappointed. Because if he is going to tear down this current team, which obviously wasn't going anywhere, then he'd better be willing to dump a few other players too before the end of the season. Take what he can get (just like he just did). He can't stop with an Adam Dunn.

    So we are now back to an addage mentioned earlier, but with a different name inserted... "Tear it done Walt, and make it yours."
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    It's hard to correctly analyze this trade without correctly knowing who the 2 PTBNLs are. I have always been a fan of what Dunn can do for the Reds(OBP, HR, 90+RBI), and I didn't want him traded without someone coming back who can replace this production. I did hope the Reds would end up signing him to an extension, but it may be that it was not possible. The Reds clearly are rebuilding for the future, and I think is clearly a sad day for Cincinnati and the Reds.

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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    The only way this deal works out is if the Reds recieved a haul that is obviously more than what the comp picks would project.
    Most comp picks don't make it.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  11. #820
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Well, I'm pleased with the Red's move. Although I was about 99% sure both sides knew they were parting after the season, it's good to eliminate that percentage. It's not that Dunn wasn't valuable, (his offense outweighed his defense) but 13-15 million a year is simply a luxury the Reds can't afford. It's all about the best allocation of payroll.

    So here's hoping the Reds spend the Griffey/Dunn money on some 4-5 million dollar free agents and not some 12-15 million pitcher that we'll be trying to dump in 2 years.
    The lowest acceptable payroll amount for ownership to show they are not greedy pigs is 15 million more than they are currently paying. No matter what that currently is.

  12. #821
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    The more I think about it the Whitesell kid could have issues which would make him a AAAA type player. One thing Jim Bowden knows is offensive players and wouldn't simply waive one of them especially at a position where Nick Johnson can't stay healthy and Dmitri Young is going to eat himself out of baseball soon enough. And now JoJo is stating that he has heard this kid isn't that good defensively, is that correct JoJo?

    Which now leaves Brito and Castillo. This Castillo couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat so that leaves Brito. Also we know that it's extremely unlikely that we pryed Max Scherzer away for more than one reason the best of which is he ain't gonna clear waivers. Trent says a starter but fails to name Vazquez who has mostly started the past few seasons but names Peguero who hasn't started a game in over 4 years.

    Owings/Buck/Brito is your trade folks, just speculation but it's the only deal that makes any sense for me.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  13. #822
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD View Post
    Oh for goodness sakes. If Dunn is so "ill-thought of" then there's absolutely no possible risk in offering arbitration for a one-year contract. Worst-case scenario is that an intelligent arbiter thinks differently and gives the guy 15-17M. That leaves Dunn without a no-trade clause and allows the Reds to shop him throughout at least half an offseason and most of the 2009 season without constraint as to destination. And considering the youth on the Reds' roster, paying Dunn that amount for a single year is far FAR better than paying any number of crap players millions or even 12M to their closer.

    Offering Dunn arbitration would have been a "no-lose" proposition for the Reds for the 2009 season. Worst case, you pay a potentially-tradeable player what he's worth and, best case, you have an extemely productive player signed at market value. Should Dunn decline arbitration this year, then you have the draft picks as compensation.

    The only way this deal works out is if the Reds recieved a haul that is obviously more than what the comp picks would project.
    Nice post.
    "Booing on opening day is like telling grandma her house smells like old lady."--WOY

  14. #823
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Again, this Dunn accepting Reds' arb offer is a fantasy on the level of: Cincinnati Reds--Central Division Champions.

    Choose: Diamondbacks' offer or comp picks.

  15. #824
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Most comp picks don't make it.
    An quite a few either do or at least increase significantly in value as they move through their systems (think trade value)....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #825
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by AmarilloRed View Post
    It's hard to correctly analyze this trade without correctly knowing who the 2 PTBNLs are.
    absolutely
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