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Thread: Dunn traded to DBacks

  1. #901
    Member The Baumer's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    I wonder who the other 2 players are.

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  3. #902
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baumer View Post
    I wonder who the other 2 players are.
    As do we all.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #903
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8 View Post
    yep...he wasn't pete rose, the ultimate downfall of any talented player to play in Cincinnati the past 25 years.
    Yes.

    Adam Dunn's biggest sin was he wasn't a scarppy all-out player who didn't make a lot of money. One of the many reasons why he got the lazy tag and PD just piled on that in his article. One of the many reasons people love Freel and Hopper. They appear to be going all out, but at the end of the day, it probably doesn't make any difference. Adam Dunn (and Griffey for that matter) gave us runs and we don't have them anymore.
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baumer View Post
    I wonder who the other 2 players are.
    After much speculation it's looking like Micah Owings is a near lock as one of them. And the other is a crapshoot to figure at this point. But I would guess either Josh Whitesell 1B or Jailen Peguero RHSP.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  6. #905
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    I'm betting we are at the beginning of the process of really tearing it down, all the way, and that BP, EE, Arroyo et.al., along with the obvious suspects, and Dusty, will be gone by next year. BP, by the way, is the most overrated player on RZone, IMO. It's easy to name a half dozen better second baseman, and I've seen nothing from him, except his own ego, that would make anybody regard him as a leader.

  7. #906
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    That's a strawman. No one is saying with the whole culture/leadership angle that it is about "wanting it really, really bad." When I hear repeatedly players saying things like "this isn't like other places, there's not the same pressure to win," you have a culture problem. Is Dunn/Griffey promoting that culture? I don't know exactly, but that does seem to be their approach to the game...do my best and if it doesn't get it done, well, toss me a cold one and let's come back tomorrow. Dunn himself said recently that he noticed a change in people caring about losing. That speaks volumes and is a real problem for a sports franchise in any sport. That is called apathy, and it needs to pulled up by its roots.
    I think that's a completely fair point. However, I think it needs to be made completely clear that winning requires both talent and the proper attitude / work ethic. No amount of effort or approach can compensate a dearth of talent. Whether or not Dunn's presence prevented the formation of a more urgent attitude towards winning is an open question. What isn't in question is that the Reds took a big step back in talent today.

    If this was a step in the reforming of a roster which contains both more talent and a greater dedication to wining, then so be it. But in and of the Dunn trade itself, the Reds are a much worse team today than they were yesterday, even if we make the jump to assuming an improved attitude.

    Of course, all of this could be said if they allowed Dunn to walk at the end of the season, which it seems they were inclined to do. Given that, if the return trumps that of the comp picks (and there's no way Dunn wouldn't have been offered arb), then it was the right decision.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 08-11-2008 at 11:50 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #907
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I'm betting we are at the beginning of the process of really tearing it down, all the way, and that BP, EE, Arroyo et.al., along with the obvious suspects, and Dusty, will be gone by next year. BP, by the way, is the most overrated player on RZone, IMO. It's easy to name a half dozen better second baseman, and I've seen nothing from him, except his own ego, that would make anybody regard him as a leader.
    I think EE and (alas) Dusty will still be here.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    I don't see how any manager, not even Dusty, can survive 65-97 with a club that had expectations--however nutty--of contending.

  10. #909
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I don't see how any manager, not even Dusty, can survive 65-97 with a club that had expectations--however nutty--of contending.
    It's not Dusty's team.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #910
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Yes.

    Adam Dunn's biggest sin was he wasn't a scarppy all-out player who didn't make a lot of money. One of the many reasons why he got the lazy tag and PD just piled on that in his article. One of the many reasons people love Freel and Hopper. They appear to be going all out, but at the end of the day, it probably doesn't make any difference. Adam Dunn (and Griffey for that matter) gave us runs and we don't have them anymore.
    Not for all of us. His inherent inconsistency coupled with poor range in the outfield and the occasional botched play made him not worth the payday for me. Not to mention the Reds have too many offensive and defensive holes to justify allocating such a hugh chunk of the payroll to one player.

  12. #911
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    It's not Dusty's team.
    Yeah, he'll probably make sure to tell us that as much as possible.
    Go Gators!

  13. #912
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    That speaks volumes and is a real problem for a sports franchise in any sport. That is called apathy
    and if you want it to change all you have to do is put the talent out there that can win. When you have shown yourself to be incapable of fielding a winner apathy is the natural result. You want to get rid of the apathy, start to win. And winning is about talent.

    Worrying about apathy it is putting the cart before the horse. The horse is talent. If you don't have the talent nothing else matters.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  14. #913
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Not for all of us. His inherent inconsistency coupled with poor range in the outfield and the occasional botched play made him not worth the payday for me. Not to mention the Reds have too many offensive and defensive holes to justify allocating such a hugh chunk of the payroll to one player.
    So the money factor does play into it, right?

    Yes, he was a butcher in the field, but more than made up for it at the bat, at least in my opinion.

    But, there's no sense in grieving over this, i've decided. It's time to sit back and see what Jocketty does next. If there's more to come that will improve the club, fine. If not, he'll be the Bill DeWitt of the 21st century.
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  15. #914
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Actually I agree it's not Dusty's team and I won't be too sorry to see Dusty back. Dusty was perfectly accurate, it seems to me, in saying this is Krivsky's team. Unfortunately because of the contracts on the books, it will continue to be so next year as well. In fact, it seems easy to make the case that the 30 million or so handed out next year to Cordero, Arroyo, Freel, and Gonzalez is likely what made it tough to re-sign Adam. If he'd have signed for 15, let's say, 45 million would have been tied up in those five players. That would not give WJ much flexibility to rebuild an absolutely abysmal team.

  16. #915
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by HokieRed View Post
    I'm betting we are at the beginning of the process of really tearing it down, all the way, and that BP, EE, Arroyo et.al., along with the obvious suspects, and Dusty, will be gone by next year. BP, by the way, is the most overrated player on RZone, IMO. It's easy to name a half dozen better second baseman, and I've seen nothing from him, except his own ego, that would make anybody regard him as a leader.
    Ya know I am not going to get into an argument with you about this because I see a lot of baiting here tonight. But There are not a half a dozen better 2B in baseball than Brandon Phillips. Yeah he has an ego and some questionable character concerns about him, but let's not get it twisted BP is top 2 in the NL with Utley. Uggla does not play defense anywhere near Brandon's level and Hudson doesn't play offense quite as good either and frankly none of them play better defense than BP. The guy is one lesson learned away from being the best and that is to find a way to recognize that slider down and away and laying off of it.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes


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