Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 16 to 25 of 25

Thread: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

  1. #16
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Athens, Ohio
    Posts
    681

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    The Reds aren't going to be fixed in a single off season. There are holes in this lineup you could drive a very large truck through.

    Votto - Often sited as part of the solution, but his OPS this year (.793) is dead last in the NL among qualified first basemen. He needs to take a very large step forward offensively just to be average, and his career .861 MiL OPS doesn't exactly scream superstar.

    Phillips - Average relative to the league offensively, above average relative to position (9th out of 19 qualifiers in MLB). Excellent Defensively, excellent overall.

    Keppinger/Gonzalez - Kep's OPS this year is an atrocious .657. His defense is a festering blight on the team. Gonzalez is a career .694 OPS hitter coming off of a major leg injury.

    Encarnacion - Above average offensively (9th out of 20 qualifiers in MLB in OPS), but, unfortunately, he can't really play the position defensively. His fielding % and zone rating are among the worst in the league, and his last two years say that is no fluke. At some point the Reds need to accept that EE is simply not a 3rd baseman. At 1st base/LF where he belongs, his bat doesn't look nearly so good (his OPS would put him 12th out of 20 qualifiers in LF).

    As a special note, Kep and Encarnacion combine to produce perhaps the worst left side infield defense in Red's history.

    Hannigan/Bako - Bako's OPS is .629. Let me repeat that, .629. One hopes he is either gone next year or relagated to a backup role. Hannigan has shown good minor league on base skills, but absolutely zero power (His career MiL OBP is GREATER then his .SLG, a rare feat indeed). With no power it is an open question if his on base skills will translate to the majors. On the up side, he likely won't be worst then what we've been running out there.

    Hairston (LF) - Career .695 OPS in 11 seasons (we aren't lacking for sample size here). Extremely fragile. I expect Encarnacion to actually be here next year.

    Dickerson - Getting his first taste of the big league at the age of 26 on the strength of a .863 OPS year at AAA that he produced essentially out of thin air (his lifetime MiL OPS is .775). We'll see what we've got, but if he's anything other then average he'll be bucking the odds.

    Bruce - .755 OPS as of today. We all hope he is going to develop into an elite player, but when (and if) that happens is anybody's guess. Goodness knows we don't like to think about it, but what if he is Austin Kearns redux instead of Larry Walker?

    To compete in the near future (and I'm not just talking about next year) we would need a catcher, a SS, an very good corner bat, essentially every single youngster to take a large development step forward, and continued good health from out young pitchers.

    I hate to be a buzzkill, but there's a better chance I hit the lottery then the Reds competing next year and the year after that. There's a better chance that the offense is going to be Washingtonian-type bad the next few years.

    I haven't even touched on the pitching, because I think there is long term talent there, but this year? 27th in MLB in runs allowed.

    Good luck Walt, I'm rooting for you.
    Last edited by OUReds; 08-14-2008 at 06:55 AM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,079

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxilon View Post
    Kotsay's career line:

    .282/.337/.414/.752

    Not too bad, and add in his good speed and defense for CF, I'd say he'd be a smart pickup. He's making $7MM this season and being that he's 32, I'd expect him to try to find a 4 year deal worth about $32MM-$36MM. Considering the position he plays and the money we freed up, I would say he'd be not that bad of an option.
    You want to spend 32 million on a 32 year old who has spend more than his fair share of time on the DL? If you didn't have the risk of Kotsay gettin hurt it would be a solid move, but with the state of the club right now we could spend the money wiser.

  4. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Lewisburg
    Posts
    157

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Hey I'm just saying we could get some really good talent by trading BP now and its not that I dislike him or anything its just we are getting young and by the time this team is getting good he is going to be making 15 mil a year and then we can't trade him when we are in a money crunch when votto bruce cueto EV and any other young guy who is going to be going through arbitration. Don't get me wrong I love BP on this team but just think what he can bring

  5. #19
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,491

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    I've been advocating the signing of Kotsay all year. I think he's a very good option for CF for next season. Good defensive player and a solid offensive option. I'm not sure how much he'll command, but I don't think it's going to be too outrageous, even for his own ability/production.

    My offseason moves would be:

    * Go after Sabathia or Sheets, but if unsuccessful, sign Derek Lowe
    * Mark Kotsay for CF
    * Make a run for Pat Burrell or Mark Teixeira. If they were to sign Tex, move Votto to left. If they strike out on both, maybe sign Emil Brown or Juan Rivera. There aren't a lot of attractive options out there beyond those two
    * Bolster the bullpen with a quality arm or two - maybe Chad Durbin?
    * Make a run for Orlando Hudson & move Phillips to shortstop (or trade him)

    These are the ideas I'd look into. It seems if Wilkin Castillo is part of this Diamondbacks trade that we might not see the Reds make a play for another catcher (although they still could). But LF, CF, the bullpen, another starter and either a SS or 2B could be spots that are tweaked this offseason.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Phillips and Arroyo are traded, in fact. Signing Hudson, Kotsay and a few pitchers could be a good upgrade for the team.

    I envision an opening day lineup kind of like this:

    C Wilkin Castillo (or perhaps Gerald Laird or a traded commodity)
    1B Joey Votto
    2B Orlando Hudson or Brandon Phillips
    SS Brandon Phillips or Jeff Keppinger
    3B Edwin Encarnacion
    LF Emil Brown or someone traded from another organization
    CF Mark Kotsay or Chris Dickerson
    RF Jay Bruce

    SP Aaron Harang
    SP Edinson Volquez
    SP Johnny Cueto
    SP Micah Owings
    SP Bronson Arroyo / Homer Bailey / Derek Lowe / Sheets or Sabathia / Darryl Thompson

    I think the Reds have a lot of options, actually. I think the potential is there for a very good season, even despite missing Dunn's bat.

  6. #20
    Member improbus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,077

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OUReds View Post
    The Reds aren't going to be fixed in a single off season. There are holes in this lineup you could drive a very large truck through.

    Votto - Often sited as part of the solution, but his OPS this year (.793) is dead last in the NL among qualified first basemen. He needs to take a very large step forward offensively just to be average, and his career .861 MiL OPS doesn't exactly scream superstar.

    Phillips - Average relative to the league offensively, above average relative to position (9th out of 19 qualifiers in MLB). Excellent Defensively, excellent overall.

    Keppinger/Gonzalez - Kep's OPS this year is an atrocious .657. His defense is a festering blight on the team. Gonzalez is a career .694 OPS hitter coming off of a major leg injury.

    Encarnacion - Above average offensively (9th out of 20 qualifiers in MLB in OPS), but, unfortunately, he can't really play the position defensively. His fielding % and zone rating are among the worst in the league, and his last two years say that is no fluke. At some point the Reds need to accept that EE is simply not a 3rd baseman. At 1st base/LF where he belongs, his bat doesn't look nearly so good (his OPS would put him 12th out of 20 qualifiers in LF).

    As a special note, Kep and Encarnacion combine to produce perhaps the worst left side infield defense in Red's history.

    Hannigan/Bako - Bako's OPS is .629. Let me repeat that, .629. One hopes he is either gone next year or relagated to a backup role. Hannigan has shown good minor league on base skills, but absolutely zero power (His career MiL OBP is GREATER then his .SLG, a rare feat indeed). With no power it is an open question if his on base skills will translate to the majors. On the up side, he likely won't be worst then what we've been running out there.

    Hairston (LF) - Career .695 OPS in 11 seasons (we aren't lacking for sample size here). Extremely fragile. I expect Encarnacion to actually be here next year.

    Dickerson - Getting his first taste of the big league at the age of 26 on the strength of a .863 OPS year at AAA that he produced essentially out of thin air (his lifetime MiL OPS is .775). We'll see what we've got, but if he's anything other then average he'll be bucking the odds.

    Bruce - .755 OPS as of today. We all hope he is going to develop into an elite player, but when (and if) that happens is anybody's guess. Goodness knows we don't like to think about it, but what if he is Austin Kearns redux instead of Larry Walker?

    To compete in the near future (and I'm not just talking about next year) we would need a catcher, a SS, an very good corner bat, essentially every single youngster to take a large development step forward, and continued good health from out young pitchers.

    I hate to be a buzzkill, but there's a better chance I hit the lottery then the Reds competing next year and the year after that. There's a better chance that the offense is going to be Washingtonian-type bad the next few years.

    I haven't even touched on the pitching, because I think there is long term talent there, but this year? 27th in MLB in runs allowed.

    Good luck Walt, I'm rooting for you.
    Wow, so I guess that Bruce, Votto, Dickinson, and Hanigan's combined 750 ML AB's have told the tale...

    But, I do agree that the Reds are years away. And guess what, that is fine. Wouldn't you rather watch a young team growing up together, improving and learning how to play than watch the Reds trot out an group of mid level to below average free agents that will never win? I keep hearing names like Teixeira and Sabathia. Are you crazy? What would that accomplish? This process, if done correctly, should take 3-5 years. Also, we shouldn't get too attached to these guys. There is no guarantee that Bruce, Votto, and Phillips would even be here when they start to compete. It took the Milwaukee guys 3-5 years, it took the D-Backs 3 years. It will take time, so quit worrying about next year. Get ready for 100 losses baby!
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  7. #21
    Attack Cat! OUReds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Athens, Ohio
    Posts
    681

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    Wow, so I guess that Bruce, Votto, Dickinson, and Hanigan's combined 750 ML AB's have told the tale...
    Of course not, they are all young players who will likely improve. To what extent is the question of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    But, I do agree that the Reds are years away. And guess what, that is fine. Wouldn't you rather watch a young team growing up together, improving and learning how to play than watch the Reds trot out an group of mid level to below average free agents that will never win!
    I would prefer to see the Reds in a position to compete. I've been watching the Reds "grow up and learn how to play together" for about a decade now. Given the situation though, we don't really have a choice but to do a complete rebuild. What I hope is that we don't try to do it halfway like we have the past. I agree that Harang, Phillips, Arroyo, Encarnacion, should all be on the block.

    And yes, I am bracing for 100 losses next year unfortunately.

  8. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Blue Ash
    Posts
    2,616

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    My plan would be simple. Go after as many quality free agents as you can because you know alot of them won't be interested in playing for the Reds. Atleast get your name out there and show alot of interest. Most will want to go to the big money spenders and contenders.......especially if they're older. Guys I would be interested in:

    Catchers: I'd be fine going with Hanigan unless he proves he cannot hit major league pitching. None of the catching FA's excite me. Either too old or unproductive.

    First Basemen: Teixeira is the only one interesting on the FA list and he will be woo-ed by every contender out there with big bucks. I would love to have him, but we would have to overspend to get him probably.

    Second Basemen: Hudson is the only interesting 2B FA.

    Shortstop: Furcal would be interesting hitting leadoff with his good OBP and speed. He also walks a decent amount. Plus he would shore up the middle defense.

    Renteria would be acceptable at the right price. He has good career numbers, but his numbers this year are way off and on the decline.

    Third Basemen: Hank Blalock's numbers looked good until two injury plagued seasons the last two years.

    Joe Crede has decent numbers but his OBP sucks.

    I would be interested in Chipper Jones. He would bring veteran winning leadership, can still perform at a high level, and we have third basemen on the way in the minors. If he'd sign a 3 year contract, I'd be interested.

    Left Field: I'd have a small interest in Juan Rivera.

    Milton Bradley has played over 100 games only twice in his 9 year career. And one of those seasons he only played 101 games. He is injury prone and I would stay away from him.

    Pat Burrell has a career .260 average, 27 HR's, 92 rbi's, and has only 1 error in LF this season in 116 games. Career OBS of .369 and OPS of .858. A better hitting Adam Dunn. Better fielding?

    Center Field: Mike Cameron would be a nice stop gap if you could get him short term.

    I'd be slightly interested in Kotsay.

    I'd be interested in Vlad Guerrero for LF.

    Starting Pitchers: Derek Lowe is the obvious choice.

    Oliver Perez has had two good seasons for the Mets. I'd be interested.

    Odalis Perez is having a decent season. But he's pitching in a pitcher's park this year and his career is up and down. Not that interested, but at the right price. He did make the Reds look stupid.

    Then you have all the older veterans that could probably help the team but won't be interested in coming to the Reds and will probably be re-signed by their current teams (if they don't retire), such as: Pettite, Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Ryan Dempster (Cubs will re-sign him), Mussina, and Wakefield.

    Reds have no chance at Sabathia or Sheets. Not sure I want Sheets with his injury prone history.

    Closers/Relievers:
    Brian Fuentes has put up good numbers in his career.
    Francisco Rodriguez has been dead on for several seasons.


    More than likely nothing happens.
    Who's on first?

  9. #23
    Member improbus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    2,077

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by OUReds View Post
    I've been watching the Reds "grow up and learn how to play together" for about a decade now.
    The difference now is that they are not only rebuilding with position players but with pitchers too. The Dunn/Lopez/Kearns squad was all based on offense. So when they said, let's let the young guys grow up together, they were also including Jimmy Haynes and Pete Harnisch. This time there are some young arms involved. Hopefully it will be different. PLEASE....
    Variatio delectat - Cicero

  10. #24
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    1,154

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Quote Originally Posted by joe51391 View Post
    I feel that the reds need to trade BP,EE and Arroyo for prospects and capitalize the fact that you can get good talent for them now instead of giving them big bucks and getting little in return ala dunn griff. Heck if someone offered great prospects for harrang I would take it. Just look at the A's Twins and Marlins they do it all the time and are always good. That is the problem we have been rebuilding wrong for 7 years now its time to do it the right way
    Complete insanity to trade Brandon. He is the kind of player that you want to hang onto. Harang also. Don't give away the parts you've already assembled. Play add-on!

    I wonder how Frazier or Valaika would do at 2nd base? Move Phillips to shortstop. Add a good hitting outfielder and a good starting pitcher...and things are looking good.

  11. #25
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    27

    Re: How to fix the Reds in the 2008/2009 offseason thread

    Moves for next year......how about a new pitching coach? Let's quit trading pitchers to other teams so they can then have great seasons. Let's get a good pitching coach......with the St. Louis connection.....why not look there. They have taken a lot of pitchers that did poorly in Cincinnati and made them look good in St. Louis.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25