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Thread: Dunn traded to DBacks

  1. #841
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Well, if the "insider" media knows about it, that would explain why Marty is already on the radio spouting off about how it is such a good move. If he knows the other two names, it makes a lot more sense to speak than if all he knows about is Dallas Buck and two PTBNL.

    Then again, that might just be Marty.
    I truly doubt Marty knows.

    Marty would be jumping up and down with joy no matter what, even if Dunn was traded for Juan Pierre. He has wanted Dunn out of town for years.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #842
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Reds are going to get 3 players, all of whom have already established value. And they've already been paid their signing bonuses.
    What is their value?

    We don't know the guys but just taking the Buck/Whitesell/Owings hypothetical for a moment, the Reds aren't getting a value that would be terribly hard to replace. Basically they'd be looking at role players without much upside. Buck basically looks like he's destined for the back end if he can overcome his arm history. Owings is limited by his inability to get lefties out but hey there are warts on all back end starters. Whitesell, well, he projects to be a pretty limited player.

    I'm not sure how those guys translate into difference makers.

    Comp picks on the other hand can turn into David Wright, Nick Swisher, Huston Street, Joe Blanton, Mark Teahen, David Aardsma, Aaron Heilman, Philip Hughes, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Adam Miller, and JoJo Reyes....
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #843
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    The idiot has spoken.

    Doc: So now what?

    By Paul Daugherty • pdaugherty@enquirer.com • August 11, 2008

    The Reds, who are exciting only when they’re not playing, traded Adam Dunn to the Arizona Diamondbacks today for a 23-year-old, Class A starting pitcher named Dallas Buck who, in another life, died in old Western movies.
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    Cincinnati also will receive two players as yet unnamed. Unless the pair throw like Seaver or hit like Perez, you have to wonder what’s up.

    As insignificant as Dunn was to winning here, 40 homers and 100 RBI don’t appear magically every March. After the club traded Ken Griffey Jr., the brass wanted to see if Dunn would emerge as a clubhouse presence. Apparently, after 11 days, the brass had seen enough.

    Regardless, Dunn’s tax bracket didn’t match his production, at least not here. He’d have wanted too much money for what he provided. Dunn was who he was: A guy who could hit a baseball 400 feet more often than almost anyone else, but couldn’t produce a two-out RBI single.

    He was slow, he had a mediocre arm, he played a dangerous left field. He was a big man whose bigness could give the impression he wasn’t trying. Baseball wasn’t his passion. It was his job. He played it that way.

    “Another day closer to retirement," Dunn said once a few years ago, around the batting cage before a game. That was Dunn. His teammates liked him, but he didn’t lead. Laid back should be a character trait, not a career choice. Not when you’re making $13 million.

    It’s doubtful Arizona will keep him after this season. Dunn will be the prototypical DH in ‘09, when his adventures in Left Field Land won’t be duplicated.

    Did you really want the Reds to lock up $60 million for Adam Dunn? Did you want them to offer him arbitration and hope he’d decline it, so the club would get two draft picks? What if he accepted? (Hint: More of the same.)

    Did you see anyone involved believing a one-year deal was worth the effort, given Dunn’s (and the team’s) track record during his stay in Cincinnati?

    If the Reds paid Dunn for four years, they’d wreck any chances of fundamentally improving the team, unless they jacked the payroll considerably, which they aren’t going to do. You’d also wonder how a 28-year-old, chronically overweight player would get better, or even maintain his current pace.

    The optimum would have been for the Reds to move Dunn before the trade deadline. Nobody wanted him. That’s why Mark Teixeira was dealt, and Jason Bay and Manny Ramirez and Xavier Nady, while the Big Donkey stayed a Red.

    Dunn’s value was always seen as greater in Cincinnati than elsewhere. To be dealt to Arizona, Dunn had to clear waivers. Any other club could have claimed him and the trade would not have been made. None did. Because J.P. Ricciardi was wrong to say what he said about Dunn doesn’t mean what he said was wrong.

    You could say the rest of Major League Baseball was being nice to the Reds and the Diamondbacks. Or you could suggest Dunn ain’t all that.

    I suggest the latter. More to the point: Dunn never improved. He went through a steady stream of hitting coaches, none of whom could change his style or approach. After coach No. 3 or 4, you start to believe it was the hitter, not his coach.

    Those enamored with numbers couldn’t get enough of Adam Dunn. Stat freaks genuflected at the foot of Dunn’s on-base percentage, while dismissing his detractors as ill-informed hacks.

    Forty Homers! Hundred RBI! Hundred Runs! Look at that man. . . Walk! The standard argument was, and is, “How do you replace numbers like those?’’ We’re about to find out.

    This is further evidence that Walt Jocketty evaluated the ’08 Reds and became ill. He has, in 11 days, removed the twin heads of the patient. Griffey and Dunn are elsewhere. Will the Reds be better without them? Could they be any worse?

    Time now for the clubhouse culture to undergo a sea change. Who wants to win? Who wants to prepare to win? Anyone? Elvis and his sidekick have left the building. Who wants the footlights now?

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...OL03/308110042
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  5. #844
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Comp picks on the other hand can turn into David Wright, Nick Swisher, Huston Street, Joe Blanton, Mark Teahen, David Aardsma, Aaron Heilman, Philip Hughes, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Adam Miller, and JoJo Reyes....
    "Draft picks aren't a sure thing" so I guess the smart thing is going with some prospects who aren't a sure thing either.

    I'm really thinking Dusty is a complete moron.
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  6. #845
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Reds need to look for some undevalued guys that have a high OBP. To current team is "riding the OBP short bus".
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  7. #846
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    The idiot has spoken.
    To be dealt to Arizona, Dunn had to clear waivers. Any other club could have claimed him and the trade would not have been made. None did. Because J.P. Ricciardi was wrong to say what he said about Dunn doesn’t mean what he said was wrong.

    You could say the rest of Major League Baseball was being nice to the Reds and the Diamondbacks. Or you could suggest Dunn ain’t all that.
    I'm not convinced Daugherty has ever watched a full Reds game in his life, nor has he ever understood the concept of waivers. We all know that what he says in his article was not true. There are more than just the D'Backs that claimed Dunn. He is implying nobody but the D'Backs wanted him. Flat out ridiculous.

  8. #847
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Reds are going to get 3 players, all of whom have already established value. And they've already been paid their signing bonuses.
    This point can't get made often or loudly enough. Especially given that the Reds are likely backing up the Brinks truck for Yonder, have already dumped a vault in Juan Duran's yard, and may need to visit the Federal Reserve's emergency window to complete the reported signing of the new Latin American sensation.

    To say the team doesn't spend money on the draft is just incorrect. With that being said, perhaps next year's draft doesn't look to be as deep(I don't know) and the Reds don't feel like they would get value from a sandwich pick but would still have to pay big money. Perhaps there is more value in getting a known quantity where the bonus money has already been paid.
    When people say that I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  9. #848
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    What is their value?

    We don't know the guys but just taking the Buck/Whitesell/Owings hypothetical for a moment, the Reds aren't getting a value that would be terribly hard to replace. Basically they'd be looking at role players without much upside. Buck basically looks like he's destined for the back end if he can overcome his arm history. Owings is limited by his inability to get lefties out but hey there are warts on all back end starters. Whitesell, well, he projects to be a pretty limited player.

    I'm not sure how those guys translate into difference makers.

    Comp picks on the other hand can turn into David Wright, Nick Swisher, Huston Street, Joe Blanton, Mark Teahen, David Aardsma, Aaron Heilman, Philip Hughes, Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Adam Miller, and JoJo Reyes....
    roster fodder is not what the Reds need
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  10. #849
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    I just got home from being gone all weekend. I was driving thru Cincy on the way and actually turned on the radio to get the traffic (never really do) and the first thing I heard on WLW after a commercial was about this trade. I'd love to read the whole thread...and probably will eventually but what's the reader's digest version from someone who has been following along today? Do we know the 2 PTBNL's? I heard on the radio that Daughtery said one of them was a recognizeable name (he wouldn't say who though) and he mentioned we got 3 pitchers for Dunn. So do we have any idea on that? I can't say I'm too impressed with a 24 y/o in A ball who's already had Tommy John surgery though...hopefully the other 2 players are something or else I think it will have been a mistake to deal Dunn instead of taking the 2 picks.

  11. #850
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    I would think acquiring all these pitchers will set the Reds up for trading Arroyo/Harang in the off-season.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #851
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I'll keep Weathers. He's worth a comp pick (a borderline A pick) now and I doubt someone gives up a better prospect than that for 8 weeks of Weathers.

    Would you risk offering Weathers arbitration though? I wouldn't (unless I wanted him back). He'd accept in a heartbeat, and get 3-4 million next year, easily.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #852
    Your killin' me Smalls! StillFunkyB's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Bob Castellini, the Reds chief executive officer, said the team will probably pursue a free agent.

    But the free agent class is somewhat underwhelming. Philadelphia left fielder Pat Burrell is probably the top outfielder on the list.

    The list won’t be finalized until club’s decided what to do with players they hold options on.

    “A lot depends on who’s available,” GM Walt Jocketty said over the weekend. “The free agent list is great. We’ll see who’s available in trade.”

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...PT04/308110067
    Yay. Pat Burrell.

    Let me repeat that,

    Yay.
    "And the fact that watching him pitch is like having someone poop on your soul." FCB on Gary Majewski

  14. #853
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by Caseyfan21 View Post
    I just got home from being gone all weekend. I was driving thru Cincy on the way and actually turned on the radio to get the traffic (never really do) and the first thing I heard on WLW after a commercial was about this trade. I'd love to read the whole thread...and probably will eventually but what's the reader's digest version from someone who has been following along today? Do we know the 2 PTBNL's? I heard on the radio that Daughtery said one of them was a recognizeable name (he wouldn't say who though) and he mentioned we got 3 pitchers for Dunn. So do we have any idea on that? I can't say I'm too impressed with a 24 y/o in A ball who's already had Tommy John surgery though...hopefully the other 2 players are something or else I think it will have been a mistake to deal Dunn instead of taking the 2 picks.
    Hmm hadn't heard that nugget. We assumed 2 pitchers and 1 offensive player. So now that leads me to believe Owings/Buck and 1 of Gutierrez/Fruto/Vasquez/Paguero.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  15. #854
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    That Daugherty article reads like a parody. What a buffoon.

  16. #855
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    Re: Dunn traded to DBacks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Okay, so after some research I think I understand the waivers rules a bit better. What I don't understand is this:

    If the two PTBNL have to clear waivers before the deal is official, what is to stop other clubs from placing claims on them before the 48-hour wait period is over?

    That is, say Micah Owings and Josh Whitesell are currently on waivers. And say the Astros make a waiver claim on both of them. Wouldn't that screw up the trade? Or would Walt just have to renegotiate for different players?

    Sorry if I'm being dense here, but I'm just trying to figure out how this works.
    The Diamondbacks could send the players to the Reds after the season ended.
    That's what happened in 1995. The Reds sent Mark Lewis to Detroit after the season ended to complete the Wells trade.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!


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