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Thread: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

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    Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...page=rumblings

    • Dunn deal: Did Arizona give up too much (three players, presumably including Micah Owings) for Adam Dunn? The Reds based their asking price on the premise that Dunn will be a Type A free agent, so they needed to do better than two draft picks. But officials of two other teams say there's "no way" they would've offered Dunn arbitration. "There's a guy who, if you offer him arbitration, there's too good a chance he's going to take you up on it," one said.

    Nevertheless, the Diamondbacks needed to add offense, especially left-handed-hitting offense. They're 13th in the league in hitting, and 11th in OPS, versus right-handers.

    "He's a better player than people give him credit for," one scout said of Dunn. "People think he's just some lazy guy who can't do anything but hit the ball out of the park. He's better than that. He's a force. You have to make pitches on him. If you don't, he'll go long on you or he'll walk."
    Last edited by Benihana; 08-14-2008 at 04:07 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    You have to make pitches on him. If you don't, he'll go long on you or he'll walk."
    Eww

    Walks are icky.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Within that same article Stark calls out Dusty Baker for pretty much absolving himself of any blame in the construction of this team.

    Seeing Red: We've heard some buzzing lately, among baseball men, scouts and players, about a recent Dusty Baker quote on the Reds' troubles that sure looked like an attempt to absolve himself of all blame.

    "I have never wanted to win more than I do right here, and I will," Baker told the Dayton Daily News' Hal McCoy. "But this is Wayne Krivsky's team, not Walt Jocketty's and not mine. I just hope there is enough out there after the season that we can get to help us."


    Maybe we're not reading that right. But if we're misinterpreting it, suffice it to say we're not the only ones. And it appears Baker is saying that the Reds' disappointing record is his players' fault, and his former GM's fault, but not his own or his current GM's doing.

    Well, obviously, Jocketty is only now beginning to put his stamp on this roster. And the players haven't exactly overachieved. But doesn't the manager bear some responsibility for this mess, too?

    Scouts who have followed the Reds continually talk about their messy execution, their mediocre defense and their distinct lack of energy. There also has been plenty of second-guessing of Baker's lineup choices (particularly those 242 at-bats Corey Patterson has gotten).

    And there is no shortage of people wondering whether Aaron Harang's forearm injury -- along with his 1-6, 8.49 slide in the past 2 months -- might be a direct result of Baker's decision to allow him to throw 63 pitches in relief on two days' rest in a May 25 18-inning game, then start him on three days' rest immediately afterward.

    Dusty Baker has many admirable traits. And this is not an attempt to heap all the blame on him. We're just saying that when teams like this fall apart, it's everybody's fault -- including the manager's.

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post

    Scouts who have followed the Reds continually talk about their messy execution, their mediocre defense and their distinct lack of energy. There also has been plenty of second-guessing of Baker's lineup choices (particularly those 242 at-bats Corey Patterson has gotten).

    And there is no shortage of people wondering whether Aaron Harang's forearm injury -- along with his 1-6, 8.49 slide in the past 2 months -- might be a direct result of Baker's decision to allow him to throw 63 pitches in relief on two days' rest in a May 25 18-inning game, then start him on three days' rest immediately afterward.

    Dusty Baker has many admirable traits. And this is not an attempt to heap all the blame on him. We're just saying that when teams like this fall apart, it's everybody's fault -- including the manager's.
    No argument with the above.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post

    Maybe we're not reading that right. But if we're misinterpreting it, suffice it to say we're not the only ones. And it appears Baker is saying that the Reds' disappointing record is his players' fault, and his former GM's fault, but not his own or his current GM's doing.


    Dusty Baker has many admirable traits. And this is not an attempt to heap all the blame on him. We're just saying that when teams like this fall apart, it's everybody's fault -- including the manager's.
    Maybe he's heard or read on RZ as many times as I have how the manager doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. That is a two-sided coin if one desires to be consistent--a trait of rational people, I might add.

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    Bread Gloves Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...page=rumblings

    • Dunn deal: Did Arizona give up too much (three players, presumably including Micah Owings) for Adam Dunn? The Reds based their asking price on the premise that Dunn will be a Type A free agent, so they needed to do better than two draft picks. [B]But officials of two other teams say there's "no way" they would've offered Dunn arbitration. "There's a guy who, if you offer him arbitration, there's too good a chance he's going to take you up on it," one said.
    And that would be bad for the Reds how, exactly?

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    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    And that would be bad for the Reds how, exactly?
    Because Cincy doesn't want him around at the price he costs.

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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Unnamed officials of other teams are lousy sources. Talk about conflicted. The scout they talked to must be the one Daughtery didn't.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    It's absolutely shocking to me how ignorant some people in major league front offices are. I'm guessing those two officials aren't from teams who put regular winners on the field.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Why on earth would Adam Dunn be stupid enough to take arbitration?

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Why on earth would Adam Dunn be stupid enough to take arbitration?
    Ask Greg Maddux
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    That's not the point of the article. The article is discussing whether or not Arizona overpaid. If the REDS were asking for something better than two top draft picks - the premise of the article was that if this was what the REDS were asking for should they have got it. Its a bad premise for the article in that it is valuing the trade of draft picks rather than the player traded.

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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    Why on earth would Adam Dunn be stupid enough to take arbitration?
    Because he could make more (possibly) than as a FA. Many GMs are sour on him.
    "Don't trust any statistics you did not fake yourself."--Winston Churchill

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    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheelhouse View Post
    Because he could make more (possibly) than as a FA. Many GMs are sour on him.
    How so?

    3-5 years is greater than 1 year. Adam Dunn is in his prime. What could he possibly gain in signing for one year and then doing 2008 all over again?

    Plus, I'm not sold that GM's have soured on him. They didn't sour on Carlos Lee. Besides, all it takes is one GM.

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    Re: Stark/Baseball officials: "There's no way they would've offered Dunn arbitration"

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm not sold that GM's have soured on him. They didn't sour on Carlos Lee.
    Carlos Lee is a much better player than Dunn.


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