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Thread: Joey Votto to left field?

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Joey Votto to left field?

    More Alonso
    Posted by JohnFay at 8/16/2008 4:44 PM EDT on Cincinnati.com

    Talked to Walt Jocketty about Yonder Alonso today. Two things:

    --They think he'll be ready in the 2010. "He thinks he's ready now," Jocketty said. "I like that."

    --The Reds will consider moving Joey Votto to the outfield. Left is the obvious spot. Alonso will work out at third base as well as first.

    Was it a good signing? It depends on how Alonso turns out. I think he has the potential to be a Lance Berkman type -- a good hitter with power and a great on-base percentage. His on-base was .534 this year. The Reds need more hitters like that. This team is terrible at running up pitch counts.

    But it's a huge step from college to the majors. We saw that with Brandon Larson, who the Reds took over Berkman by the way.

    Here's the details on the contract:

    --$2 million signing bonus. $1.5 million paid at approval. $500,000 paid June 15, 2009.

    --$50,000 in salary for the rest of this season.

    --$400,000 in 2009; $500,000 in 2010; $600,000 in 2011; $1 million in 2012.

    --Tuition payments of three semesters at $26,000 each ($20,000-tuition; $6,000 expenses.)

    --Family trip to Major League Debut

    --Bonus money: $25,000 Rookie of the year; $100,000 MVP; $25,000 Gold Glove; $100,000 World Series MVP; $50,000 League Champion Series MVP; $25,000 Silver Slugger; $50,000 All-Star MVP; $25,000 All-Star selection.

    --2012 may be voided if he has enough Major League service time to qualify for arbitration.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs...cincinnati.com

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  3. #2
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    He looks a lot more like Youkilis than Berkman to me;Both offensively and defensively.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason (or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman. If Chris Dickerson proves he can play everyday it will take a big burden off of the Reds front office going into the offseason.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason (or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman. If Chris Dickerson proves he can play everyday it will take a big burden off of the Reds front office going into the offseason.
    Move Votto to LF, EE to 1B and Sign Joe Crede. Then deal EE when Alonso is ready.

    I move Votto ASAP and get the learning curve out of the way. I'd play him in LF tonight with Dickerson in CF, EE a 1B and Rosales and Kepp splitting 1B the rest of the way (with maybe Alonso in September???). I don't really like exposing the staff like that, but get it out now when the games mean little. Call up some fodder to absorb the innings. Matt Belisle and Adam Pettyjohn for example.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Move Votto to LF, EE to 1B and Sign Joe Crede. Then deal EE when Alonso is ready.

    I move Votto ASAP and get the learning curve out of the way. I'd play him in LF tonight with Dickerson in CF, EE a 1B and Rosales and Kepp splitting 1B the rest of the way (with maybe Alonso in September???). I don't really like exposing the staff like that, but get it out now when the games mean little. Call up some fodder to absorb the innings. Matt Belisle and Adam Pettyjohn for example.
    I want no part of Joe Crede, his back, his inconsistent bat, and his inconsistent glove. Joe Crede is an older, more expensive, more fragile version of Edwin Encarnacion.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I want no part of Joe Crede, his back, his inconsistent bat, and his inconsistent glove. Joe Crede is an older, more expensive, more fragile version of Edwin Encarnacion.
    Agreed. If you're going to go in to FA, at least get somebody who can't get internally. Any bat acquired in FA needs to be impact level -- Teixeira, Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Ramirez.

    Here's an idea that won't happen: Brian Giles. Word is that the Padres are leaning towards not exercising his option. He's still solid defensively, especially if in LF. He gets on base a ton and his power should rebound in Cincy. I'd only give him 1 year with a team option, as he's getting up there. But there are many worse stop gaps out there.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Not saying I disagree with you on Giles, but he just veto'd a deal to Boston because he wanted to say close to his family.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Not saying I disagree with you on Giles, but he just veto'd a deal to Boston because he wanted to say close to his family.
    Yeah. If the Padres don't take him back, I could even see him retiring. Seems like a guy pretty content with his career. Only the A's have openings in the OF among the teams in the southwest if he wants to stay in the region.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Agreed. If you're going to go in to FA, at least get somebody who can't get internally. Any bat acquired in FA needs to be impact level -- Teixeira, Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Ramirez.

    Here's an idea that won't happen: Brian Giles. Word is that the Padres are leaning towards not exercising his option. He's still solid defensively, especially if in LF. He gets on base a ton and his power should rebound in Cincy. I'd only give him 1 year with a team option, as he's getting up there. But there are many worse stop gaps out there.
    But I didn't think those 8 Figure per season deals were an option. If so, I'm hoping for Dunn coming back. Why trade him if you're going to pay 1 guy that much? I thought the plan was to spread it around on various mediocrities that $4 to $5 Million per year buys these days. At least Crede would help achieve some other goals like moving Votto off of 1B to clear the way for Alonso down the road and getting EdE off of 3B.

    Seriously, I do think getting EdE off of 3B may help his bat. He seems to carry his miscues around with him. Maybe relieving him of the burden will improve his offense. I also believe that the 2009 OF will be Votto, Dickerson and Bruce with the RH bench guys (Hairston, Freel, Hopper) filling in for the LH starters and resting a couple of them against lefty pitchers.

    If Alonso is really the plan for 2010, the Reds probably won't want to give out a multi-year deal anyway and a guy like Crede would probably want more than 1 year. I'm guessing a guy like Kevin Millar to add a RH bat and good clubhouse rep might be a guy they would target. I don't buy into chemistry as much as most do, but the team has stated a desire to change the atmosphere and Millar has that reputation. He somewhat fits the job despcription (RH bat with some pop to play 1B until Alonso is ready) and would probably be a cheap one year signing. We all likely want some one better, but I don't see the team blocking Alonso with a long term commitment that some one better would probably require. Jocketty said that Votto and EdE are "untouchable" so I don't think trading them is in the plan (though I'd deal EdE to improve C, SS and/or the rotation)
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    If the OF is Votto, Dickerson, and Bruce, (and eventually possibly adding the LH bat of Alonzo at 1B) then all other positions need to be RH batters.

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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by Far East View Post
    If the OF is Votto, Dickerson, and Bruce, (and eventually possibly adding the LH bat of Alonzo at 1B) then all other positions need to be RH batters.
    Phillips is right handed
    Keppinger and Hairston are right handed
    Edwin is right handed
    Hanigan is right handed
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    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    all rather premature at the moment
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    all rather premature at the moment
    Not really. You want to planning for the future -- letting Votto get some ML experience in left field helps open up multiple option for 2009 and beyond.
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Well if you move Votto to LF, then you need to sign a stop gap first baseman in the offseason (or move EE to 1B). If you move EE to 1B, then you need to sign an everyday 3rd baseman. If Chris Dickerson proves he can play everyday it will take a big burden off of the Reds front office going into the offseason.
    This is pretty close to what I called a few months ago. Votto to LF, Edwin to 1B, Rosales 3B (if dusty would've actually played him maybe you guys would agree with me on that one).

    If they keep Phillips at 2nd, then Kepp/Janish man SS for now. I'd prefer it if Phillips went to SS and Kepp filled in at 2B until Valiaka is ready for 2B.

    LF-Votto
    CF-Dickerson
    RF-Bruce
    3B-Rosales
    SS-Phillips
    2B-Keppinger (Valiaka once ready)
    1B-Edwin (Alonso once ready)
    C-Hannigan

    I'd be MORE than happy with that. By the time Soto's ready for SS, I think that'll be about when we'll be ready to deal Phillips.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Joey Votto to left field?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    This is pretty close to what I called a few months ago. Votto to LF, Edwin to 1B, Rosales 3B (if dusty would've actually played him maybe you guys would agree with me on that one).

    If they keep Phillips at 2nd, then Kepp/Janish man SS for now. I'd prefer it if Phillips went to SS and Kepp filled in at 2B until Valiaka is ready for 2B.

    LF-Votto
    CF-Dickerson
    RF-Bruce
    3B-Rosales
    SS-Phillips
    2B-Keppinger (Valiaka once ready)
    1B-Edwin (Alonso once ready)
    C-Hannigan

    I'd be MORE than happy with that. By the time Soto's ready for SS, I think that'll be about when we'll be ready to deal Phillips.
    Phillips is a good second baseman but he'd be less interesting as a shortstop. To me Rosales is a long shot to be an everyday major leaguer. Also, the only way I'd move Votto off of first would be if it was forced by someone else kicking a hole in the sky. I think the best compromise is the fewest ones. Either get a leftfielder or move EE to left because you get a better third baseman or if you want to stay young, try and finagle a guy like a Neil Walker from the Pirates given they have LaRoche in their fold.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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