Jake,
I haven't seen Henry play in person yet (tough to get to Chattanooga or Sarasota from Cincinnati), but from what I have heard from those who see him a lot, he can play CF but its not on par with a guy like Stubbs/Dickerson. I look at him as a Ryan Freel type with a little less defense, little more power and probably not the base running mistakes.
Yes but if you'll notice, Dickerson is on the big club now and thus doesn't really merit mentioning in the top prospects list on the minor league forum. Of the guys on this list, Stubbs has been the most interesting to follow in the last couple weeks.Originally Posted by princeton
As far as Chris Heisey goes, I don't really see what all the fuss is about. Too me, he's a poor man's Dickerson or Stubbs. He's 23 in high A ball, and he's never hit double digit home runs. Yes he takes a lot of walks and steals a lot of bases, but at a certain point, pitchers are going to come after him. Furthermore, I'm not sure his glove is in the same league as Dickerson or Stubbs.
Go BLUE!!!
Heisey is a 23 year old in AA and his glove might not be as good as Stubbs but it is close.
Thompson I actually agree, he should be bumped down to a Grade B due to his health issues. But Heisey- seriously? You would take him over Cumberland, Dorn, and Henry? At best, he's a poor man's Felix Pie.
Go BLUE!!!
His glove is as good as Stubbs. Chris reminds me of Freel. Plays 110% all the time and has no fear and is + defensively.Chris has a little more power than Stubbs and strikes out less.Stubbs has a better arm and is + defensively. They are about equal in the stolen base category.
Good list Benihaha.
I would have only one A player - Alonso
I don't see Frazier and Thompson as A prospects. They don't perform that way and they don't project to perform that way. While I would rate them higher than Soto and Lotzkar, these two young prospects have much higher ceilings. Now they have a lot of development and maturing to do to reach those ceilings, but if they keep up the work ethic, they could be special.
Under players to watch I would add: LHP Valiquette, RHP Young, LHP Howell (the 2008 draftee). All three are great arms that need time to develop.
Yep, seriously. Much better all around game than Dorn. Better defensively than Henry or Cumberland because he's a legit CF, supposedly. Very effective base stealer. If you follow the box scores on a daily basis, you may have noticed how remarkably consistent he's been -- he does not run especially hot or cold. I like that quality a lot. His walk rate is much improved this season -- you like to see that kind of improvement. 31 2B, 7 3B & 7 HR is the FSL shows he's no Judy at the plate.But Heisey- seriously? You would take him over Cumberland, Dorn, and Henry? At best, he's a poor man's Felix Pie.
I've become a big fan of this kid. He has no clear weaknesses in his game, he's playing at age-appropriate level, more or less (especially for a kid coming out of Messiah College), and his intangibles are reportedly off the charts. We'll see if he fades at AA/AAA, so the jury is certainly still out, but I like his chances.
if that.
I see a lot that are a bit short of being great prospects. But, on the positive side, I see a LOT that are a bit short of being great prospects
I ran Beni's current prospect ranking by a major league scout and asked him to provide his unofficial pov on Reds
prospects, currently.
here's his take:
**************************
From: *********
Date: 08/18/08 09:31:53
To: Ga_Red
Subject: Re: Update us
Lotzkar and Soto both A's.
Viola a B. Fischer,Lecure and Lutz should be on top 25.Henry and Turner too high; Pelland off; Jordan Smith is a B. Saw Smith in Chat-Fb-90-95, cb and Ch.
Don't forget Rosales and Janish.
1.Alonso Yonder -1B
2 Todd Frazier- LF
3 Neftali Soto- 3B
4 Kyle Lotzkar- RHP
5 Darryl Thompson-RHP
6 Josh Roenicke- RHP
7 Drew Stubbs- CF
8 Chris Vailiaka- 2B
9 Juan Francisco-3B
10 Devin Mesouraca- C
11 Yorman Rodriquez-CF
12 Juan Doran- RF
13 Travis Wood-LHP
14 Jordan Smith-RHP
15 Ramon Geronimo-RHP
16 Zach Stewart- RHP
17 Zac Cozart- SS
18 Scott Carroll-RHP
19 Carlos Fischer- RHP
20 Pedro Viola-LHP
21 Evan Hilebrandt- RHP
22 Philip Valiquette- LHP
23 Josh Ravin- RHP
24 Shaun Cumberland- OF
25 Chris Heisey- OF
26 Sam Lecure- RHP
27 Justin Reed- OF
28 Derik Lutz- RHP
29 Matt Maloney- LHP
30 Tony Brown- OF
31 Ben Jukich- LHP
32 Robert Manuel- RHP
33 Craig Tatum- C
34 Danny Dorn- OF
35 Sean Watson- RHP
36 Rafael Gonzales- RHP
37 Danny Herrera- LHP
38 Brandon Waring- 3B
39 keltivious Jones-OF
40 Justin Turner- 2B
---------------------------------------------------------
From: Ga_Red@Bigfoot.com
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 01:56:55 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
To: ********
Subject: Re: Update us
Greetings *****,
Tx for your quick get back!
The following was posted on the minor league forum at Redszone.com.
The guy who posted this is not a pro, as far as I know. I thot his A+ for Yonder, premature, Roeneike, Dorn, Soto and Buddy Herrera too low,etc.
If you're of a mind to, post your ratings beside his, tx.
Ga_Red
==================================
From Redszone Minor League Forum
GRADE A
1. Yonder Alonso, 21, 1B, A+
2. Todd Frazier, 22, 1B/3B/LF, A+
3. Daryl Thompson, 22, RHP, AAA
GRADE B
4. Neftali Soto, 19, 3B/LF, A
5. Drew Stubbs, 23, CF, AAA
6. Chris Valaika, 22, 2B, AA
7. Josh Roenicke, 25, RHP, AAA
8. Kyle Lotzkar, 19, RHP, A (injured)
9. Devin Mesoraco, 20, C, A
10. Juan Francisco, 21, 1B/RF/C??, A+
11. Zach Stewart, 21, RHP, A+
GRADE C
12. Zach Cozart, 22, SS, A
13. Travis Wood, 21, LHP, A+
14. Matt Maloney, 24, LHP, AAA
15. Shaun Cumberland, 23, OF, AAA
16. Daniel Dorn, 23, OF, AA
17. Sean Henry, 22, OF, AA
18. Justin Turner, 23, 2B, AA
19. Brandon Waring, 22, 3B, A
20. Dallas Buck, 23, RHP, A+
ON THE RADAR
21. Sam LeCure, 23, RHP, AA
22. Daniel Herrera, 23, LHP, AAA
23. Tyler Pelland, 23, LHP, AAA
24. Sean Watson, 23, RHP, AA
25. Pedro Viola, 24, LHP, AA
KEEP AN EYE ON (too early to rate)
Yorman Rodriguez 16 OF R
Juan Duran 16 OF R
Alex Oliveras 18 OF R
Evan Hildenbrant 19 RHP R
Alex Buchholz 21 2B R (injured)
OTHER NAMES TO KNOW (no longer prospect status, but don't forget about)
Homer Bailey 22, RHP AAA
Micah Owings 25, RHP/OF?? AAA
Carlos Fisher 25, RHP AAA
Ben Jukich 25, LHP AA
Robert Manuel 25, RHP AA
Danny Richar 25, 2B/SS AAA
Craig Tatum 25, C AAA
The guy to watch in the last couple weeks has been Drew Stubbs of course, who rocketed all the way up to AAA after an impressive month in Chattanooga. Perhaps helped by the hole on the major league team, Stubbs figures to get an invite to big league camp in the spring with a legitimate shot to make the team, possibly even as a starter or at least in a platoon situation with Chris Dickerson. Additionally, the signings of Alonso and Rodriguez, coupled with the Dunn and Griffey trades, have boosted both the overall talent level as well as the depth of the system. Alonso and Owings should both be significant parts of the major league team by the end of 2009, while Richar should be a nice utility guy off the bench. Rodriguez, much like Juan Duran, has an astronomically high ceiling but is also several years away from being a factor. He was heralded as one of the best outfielders ever to sign out of Venezuela, hopefully he lives up to even half of that billing. Ditto for Duran out of the Dominican. Finally, I mentioned this in another thread last week, but I'd really like to see the Reds try Juan Francisco behind the plate. Many impressive names at the big league level started out as infielders in the minors, including All-Stars Russell Martin and Geovany Soto, as well as former All-Star Terry Steinbach, who was moved behind the plate while Jocketty was the farm director. Francisco would be the perfect target for this project IMO, as he has a very strong arm, and a promising bat that needs significant time to develop (and hopefully gain some discipline.) Teach him the position in the Arizona Fall League, let him play all winter in the Dominican, and then start back up again in Sarasota next season. If he picks the position up well, he could be in Chattanooga by the break. Mesoraco should probably begin next year in Dayton again anyway, as all reports seem to imply that he needs some serious work on his defense (and his offense, while not terrible, was no great shakes there either.) Zach Stewart has been shooting up the charts as he shoots up the system and continues to dominate. Dallas Buck is an interesting guy to watch, as he had Grade A talent before getting injured, and hopefully comes back from TJ surgery more like Francisco Liriano than Brandon Claussen. If he does, he will rise fast up the list.
SEPTEMBER CALL-UPS
While minor league staples like Chris Dickerson, Adam Rosales, and Ryan Hanigan are already up with the big club, I would like to see the following guys up in the next two weeks, as they should be in strong consideration for a roster spot come next spring:
1. Josh Roenicke- should have been called up weeks ago. Will get called up especially if Affeldt and/or Weathers are traded.
2. Shaun Cumberland- with the departures of Dunn and Griffey, the outfield should be an open casting call. Give Cumberland, Dorn, Dickerson, and maybe even Stubbs (depending on how he finishes the Louisville season) a chance to prove they can handle a big league role.
3. Daniel Dorn- alternate starts in LF between him and Cumberland (realizing they're both lefties, it's not really a platoon.) While he can't hit lefties, he hits righties probably better than anyone in the entire system.
4. Daniel Herrera- he had a nice debut earlier in the summer. Let's see if he can maintain his success in the bigs.
5. Tyler Pelland- nothing left to prove in the minors, his time has come. Let's see who can win the battle between him and Herrera to be the other lefty in the pen alongside Bray next year (assuming Affeldt doesn't accept arbitration.)
6. Danny Richar- can he fill in at SS in the bigs? There's only one way to find out. The roster won't be big enough for him and Janish (and Rosales) next year, so let's see what we got for Griffey.
***********************************
Why no Henry? Is this Scout a Reds scout?
Very interesting, thanks Ga_Red.
FWIW, I wasn't giving Alonso (or Frazier) an A+, I was noting that that (appears to be- in Alonso's case) their current minor league level- high A ball.
Go BLUE!!!
I agree with him on Lotzkar and Soto. Before Lotzkar was injured he was holding opponents in the Midwest League to a .215 average against and had 50 strikeouts in 37.2 innings. Keep in mind that he's only 18 years old and facing older competition. He's got potentially three plus pitches and a great pitchers frame at 6'4" 200. As for Soto, he's OPSing .912 between Billings and Dayton and 32 extra base hits in only 230 atbats. He's only 19 and has has great bat speed. As his wiry frame fills out he should develop big time power. He's got a chance to be a star IMO.
Nice lists.
I am also in the Heisey camp. His progress seems to have been solid, but not spectacular. Thus, he has not been able to move multiple levels each year. I believe he would make a great LF platoon with Dorn. When not starting against LHP, Heisey would be available for defensive replacement or pinch runner. Maybe its just me, but I love close, low scoring games that can be decided by great defense and base running. All the emphasis on HRs in the steroid era has bordered on the obscene.
Among Dickerson, Stubbs, Cumberland, Bruce, Dorn, Heisey, and Henry, the Reds have an opportunity to assemble an excellent outfield of platooning players who are all either average or plus defenders. It will probably take until 2010 to sort this out and determine whom to keep. Performance in AAA next year will go a long way toward doing that.
I noticed that the board is still high on Travis Wood even though he has taken his lumps at CHA. I have not seen him pitch, but my suspicion is that his velocity is down. Can someone who has seen him recently comment on his problems?
While we're all being so agreeable . . . I, too, would put Soto and Lotzkar atop the list -- possibly even ahead of Alonso, based on age and professional experience. I'm not as crazy about Frazier as some are but have no particular quarrels with him.
And I'm fervently hoping that the Reds pursue a young platoon, or two, in the outfield. Jocketty (or was it LaRussa?) got a lot of mileage out of unspectacular Cardinal outfielders doing that. And the pieces very much seem to be there in Cincinnati, with the names mentioned above. Hairston could fit into that mix as well. (I wouldn't platoon Bruce, however. He plays every day.) I tend to think that teams these days are largely neglecting the benefits of platooning. Along those lines, I think that even Griffey and Dunn would have been different players if used in platoons.
Interesting that there's been nary a mention of the likes of Adam Rosales, Ramon Ramirez or Paul Janish. I suppose that's a pretty nice commentary.
Posting Permissions
|
Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please. |
Reply With Quote