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Thread: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

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    Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Or neither?

    Discuss.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Opposing hitters tend to compare him to Pedro in post game quotes. I can remember Griffey also making that comparison, and Arroyo too. His stuff reminds me of Pedro, but I don't think we can expect him to go out and post sub 2.00 ERA's at times like Pedro did in his prime. In his prime Pedro was consistently at 95-97 with a plus curveball and plus changeup. Right now Cueto is consistently at 94-96 with a plus slider and plus changeup, though he is inconsistent at times with his command but what rookie pitcher isn't? Give Cueto a couple years and I believe we're going to see him putting up Cy Young type of numbers. His stuff is that good. His problem right now is he tends to give in to fastball hitters - I don't know how many times I've seen him ahead in the count only to throw a hittable fastball when he should have buried a slider or changeup, and the result is usually a homerun. As he matures as a pitcher this problem should go away and that's when he'll take off as a pitcher.

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Too early to say.

    Next year will be a better indicator of what's to come I think. His ceiling is ridiculous, obviously. We'll see what happens.

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    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    I think we should ask Javy Valentin for his opinion.

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Pedro in his prime was just stupid good, so that's asking a bit much. Cueto's only 22 though and has already shown he can throw it over the plate and miss bats. That's 2/3 the battle right there. I think whether his homerun rates come down is what will determine whether he's an annual Cy Young contender or a flashy #2-3 starter.

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Javier Vasquez is still an excellent pitcher.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    From what I've seen, Cueto needs to fall out of love with his slider and fall in love with his changeup.

    I think he has special stuff, but just needs to have better pitch selection. Maybe it's scouting reports (or lack thereof), maybe it's slight immaturity, who knows?

    I'm really excited to see what he can and will do in the future in a Reds uni.

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    I was just looking at some stats and saw that Cueto has the 8th highest K/9 among all MLB pitchers who have thrown at least 140 innings. That is very impressive considering over 70 pitchers have thrown over 140+ innings.

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    From what I've seen, Cueto needs to fall out of love with his slider and fall in love with his changeup.

    I think he has special stuff, but just needs to have better pitch selection. Maybe it's scouting reports (or lack thereof), maybe it's slight immaturity, who knows?

    I'm really excited to see what he can and will do in the future in a Reds uni.
    Sounds like Carlos Marmol.

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    I don't know how well they match up from the stuff perspective (I think Vazquez has a curve too), but from the outcomes, I think Javier Vazquez is a near perfect comparison. Both have very good stuff generally, get lots of K's, solid control, slightly flyball oriented and homer prone. They both were solid but not super highly regarded prospects who made the majors quickly. If Cueto can have Vazquez's career, we'll be quite fortunate.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    Javier Vasquez is still an excellent pitcher.
    He is a very good pitcher. I think all three of the above-named pitchers are very good to great. Just curious as to what folks think Cueto will become--a true ace or a horse.

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Opposing hitters tend to compare him to Pedro in post game quotes. I can remember Griffey also making that comparison, and Arroyo too. His stuff reminds me of Pedro, but I don't think we can expect him to go out and post sub 2.00 ERA's at times like Pedro did in his prime. In his prime Pedro was consistently at 95-97 with a plus curveball and plus changeup. Right now Cueto is consistently at 94-96 with a plus slider and plus changeup, though he is inconsistent at times with his command but what rookie pitcher isn't? Give Cueto a couple years and I believe we're going to see him putting up Cy Young type of numbers. His stuff is that good. His problem right now is he tends to give in to fastball hitters - I don't know how many times I've seen him ahead in the count only to throw a hittable fastball when he should have buried a slider or changeup, and the result is usually a homerun. As he matures as a pitcher this problem should go away and that's when he'll take off as a pitcher.
    I personally think thats more trying to get confidence in himself and showing off. He says to himself this is a fastball hitter and I'm going to blow him away with my fastball. No junk, just straight heat. Unfortunately, that doesnt work in the majors.
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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Sounds like Carlos Marmol.
    Marmol is a guy I'd love to see in a Reds uniform, but you're right, he's a tad on the pitching immature side, and loves to throw his out pitch is the wrong situation(s).

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    He is a very good pitcher. I think all three of the above-named pitchers are very good to great. Just curious as to what folks think Cueto will become--a true ace or a horse.
    The odds are against him becoming Pedro. I think Vasquez is a realistic expectation, though.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Re: Is Johnny Cueto more Javy Vazquez/Harang or Pedro?

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    He is a very good pitcher. I think all three of the above-named pitchers are very good to great. Just curious as to what folks think Cueto will become--a true ace or a horse.
    True ace, at a performance level akin to a young Oswalt (assuming health, and other variables don't interfere).


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