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Thread: My last ever Adam Dunn Thread - from the ORG "Dunn Appreciation Thread"

  1. #76
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    Re: My last ever Adam Dunn Thread - from the ORG "Dunn Appreciation Thread"

    Quote Originally Posted by HTownRedsGuy View Post
    If i am not mistaken Duval was nomianted for 3 Best Actor Academy Awards for leading Roles and won one while Hackman was nominated for 2 Best Actor Academy Awards while winning one. Pitt meanwhile has never been nominated for Best Actor in a leading role.
    It's a false analogy. Subjective analysis of a movie is nothing like the mechanics of a baseball game.
    You guys are right. My bad, I was not clear in my analogy. I was not talking about how "good" a movie was, or how "good" an actor was, or how many awards he or the movie might win. I was talking about how much money the movie makes, whether or not it was a financial success.

    Very few people decide to see a movie because Duvall, or Hackman are in it. But plenty of people (not me, however) will see a movie just because Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise are in it.

    Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise can carry a movie financially, while Robert Duvall and Gene Hackman need bigger stars in order to make sure the movie they are in is a financial success.

    Similarly, players like Adam Dunn and Jim Edmonds can not expect their teams to win if they are the best players. They need at least one better player on their team for them to make the playoffs. Players like Albert Pujols and Chipper Jones can lead their teams to the playoffs without better players on their team, with just supporting or role players on their team. They can be the best player on the team and the team can still win.

    I did not make myself clear, I apologize.

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  3. #77
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    Re: My last ever Adam Dunn Thread - from the ORG "Dunn Appreciation Thread"

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Well when 60% of the NBA teams make the playoffs, it doesn't really count.

    Yes, it is bad, or at least not great, but it makes the point that FRANCHISE players exist, but don't flourish with only role players. KobMe had to have Shaq to win, and Big Bird and a bunch of stinky Euro 3 point guys got him to the playoffs to begin with.

    Franchise players can't carry the whole load on TEAM sports, that doesn't mean they aren't Franchise players.

    757690 said "by definition, a franchise player is one who doesn't need other great hitters around him. He is the anchor and you build the team around him with role players".

    That's just flat out, plain WRONG.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    You have not addressed why you think my analogy is the worst analogy ever, you have only argued (poorly) that my definition of a franchise player is wrong.

    In order to show that my analogy is the worst ever, you need to show how the relationship between lead actors, supporting actors and the success of a movie is different from the relationship between franchise baseball players, role players and the success of their teams.

    Granted, changing the definition of a franchise player has an effect on the that relationship, but even if I got that definition completely wrong, that does not make the analogy invalid.

    Anyway, let me defend my definition of a franchise player.

    A franchise player is a player who can clearly be the best player on his team, and have that team make the playoffs. He can have other great players on his team, but he does not need them. If a player needs better players on his team in order to win, than he is not a franchise player. Again, franchise players are very rare, so it not a criticism of Dunn that he is not one, just a reality, one that you admit to be true.

    George Brett, Chipper Jones, Kirby Puckett, Tony Gwynn, are some recent examples. These guys had other very good players on their teams, but they clearly were the best players on their teams, and they led their teams to the playoffs for many years.

    I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by role player, a role player can be a very good, even an all-star, but a role player is not, or at least, should not be the best player on his team

    Most teams like to have more than one franchise player, and naturally, those that can afford more than one do win more often, but a true franchise player does not need a player either as good or better than him in order to win. Similarly, a true movie star does not need anyone else on the marque in order for the movie to make money.

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    Re: My last ever Adam Dunn Thread - from the ORG "Dunn Appreciation Thread"

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    I disagree.
    I think it's the worse analogy ever.
    A Franchise player is someone you build around, not SOLELY depend upon to lead a bunch of role players.
    Not in Baseball.

    PEACE

    -BLEEDS
    I just dont think a team can win with Dunn consistantly being the best player and that does not make him a franchise player IMO. If you were starting a franchise for next season who would be your first few picks? Your first 15? Your first 30? Would Dunn be in the top 30? Not mine and to me that makes a franchise player.
    Last edited by redsfanmia; 08-22-2008 at 06:32 PM.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    Re: My last ever Adam Dunn Thread - from the ORG "Dunn Appreciation Thread"

    He would be in the top 30 hitters.

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    Re: My last ever Adam Dunn Thread - from the ORG "Dunn Appreciation Thread"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    He would be in the top 30 hitters.
    Not so sure about that, not in the top 30 of all players though.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.


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