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Thread: Arroyo's last 10 starts

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Arroyo's last 10 starts

    In his last 10 starts Bronson is starting to pitch like he did his first two seasons in Cincinnati. Take a look at his 10 starts since that disastrous start in Toronto where he allowed 10 runs in just one inning of work:

    63.2 IP, 56 H, 7 HR, 26 ER, 25 BB/47 K, 3.70 ERA

    That includes the game at Wrigley Field back in early July when the wind was blowing out and homeruns were flying all over the park that day. Seven of his 10 starts have been quality starts. This is a very encouraging sign. Earlier in the year his velocity was down and he wasn't commanding his curveball well but that seems to be a thing of the past now. He seems to be on the right track again. Having an effective Bronson Arroyo penciled in behind a healthy Aaron Harang, Edinson Volquez, and Johnny Cueto makes this a very good rotation going into 2009 IMO.

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  3. #2
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    I hope he keeps it up for the rest of the year and Walt trades him for a kings ransom come the offseason.

    Me no trust Arroyo
    Go Gators!

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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Yeah, I would deal Arroyo for a great haul but I wouldn't just give him away. I still think he's got a couple above average seasons left in the tank. If they can get something good for him, deal him. If not then keep him.

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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    His fastball seemed excellent tonight. Really makes a big difference when Arroyo has that good velocity.

  6. #5
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    it's interesting that we tend to value pitching over offense, but as tonight showed, it's rare when a gem of a pitching performance leads to a win. Very rare as in 1-39 with this particular team. That's the record the Reds have when getting less than 3 runs.

    Unfortunately, that is the way it's going to be unless Walt Jocketty obtains some offense for this team. The lineup is a list of hackers who rarely make intelligent decisions at the plate and thus, well, lose. What good is it to have a great starting staff and even a good bullpen if your team cannot score runs?

    Even the best pitching staffs allow about 4 runs a game, so your offense should get 5 runs, right? The Reds since the AS break aren't even averaging 4 runs which means trouble.

    Pitching is golden, but as we've learned the hard lesson that offense is also important, you need both an offense, pitching, and defense. We may have solved one of the problems, but there are two more to look at. It may be that we have to give up one or two of our sacred cows (Arroyo, Encarnacion, and even Votto come to mind) to get where we are consistently scoring runs and allowing less.

    Maybe it was the early part of this century when we were getting hit hard and the staff was little more than pitching batting practice, but the offense has steadily declined over the last few years. It's time to pay attention to that part of the game along with the defense.
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  7. #6
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    I'm pretty confident Walt will find some solid offensive players. He's usually pretty good at acquiring hitters via trade (Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire) or off the scraps (Ludwick, converting Ankiel). Don't be surprised if Walt tries to go in the Ludwick route and acquire a guy like Nelson Cruz of the Rangers to play left field next season. Cruz just turned 28 last month but is currently hitting .344/.434/.710 - 1.144 OPS in AAA with 37 homeruns. There was a rumor right around the deadline that Walt was interested in him and it wouldn't surprise me if Jocketty revisits that in the offseason in hopes of landing another Ludwick.

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    Member NDRed's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    I still don't know why the fan base of a team as pitching-deprived as the Reds clamor for the trade of a proven MLB starter. Maybe with the sudden emergence of Cuerto and Volquez many forget that we usually head into spring training with starters:

    Starter 1
    Starter 3
    Starter 5
    ????
    ????

    I would love to start 2009 with:

    Volquez
    Harang
    Cuerto
    Arroyo
    ????

    Call me crazy!!

    Yeah I know he commands a big salary- good starters usually do. The last couple of year with the Reds and a stretch of 10 games plus 1n 2008 is a good MLB starter.

    I don't have to pay the salary- I just want a better team in 2009 and beyond and starting pitching is hard to replace.
    I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.- Stan Helsing

  9. #8
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'm pretty confident Walt will find some solid offensive players. He's usually pretty good at acquiring hitters via trade (Edmonds, Rolen, McGwire) or off the scraps (Ludwick, converting Ankiel). Don't be surprised if Walt tries to go in the Ludwick route and acquire a guy like Nelson Cruz of the Rangers to play left field next season. Cruz just turned 28 last month but is currently hitting .344/.434/.710 - 1.144 OPS in AAA with 37 homeruns. There was a rumor right around the deadline that Walt was interested in him and it wouldn't surprise me if Jocketty revisits that in the offseason in hopes of landing another Ludwick.
    Let's keep our finers crossed. RZ went out around here about 9:00, and I got so bored, I fell asleep in the La-Z-Boy until Cordero struck out the third straight hitter. I've never done that before, but to me there's nothing more boring than a team inept at scoring runs and playing defense (though there were some good plays tonight when I was awake). Seeing hitter hack at horrible pitches just adds to the frustration.

    Everyone was gung-ho about batting Jay Bruce third. I say it's time to move him down. He's really struggling.
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  10. #9
    "So Fla Red"
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    IMO, Walt's gotta be licking his chops to get some improved and reasonable cost offensive production in here next year. Lots of cash to play with and the draw of an offensive oriented ballpark.

    I think GABP is proving not to be a ridiculous hitters park (due to Reds actually having some real pitching and the Reds poor offense), but the perception is out there which should help Walt more easily fill some offensive gaps in the offseason.

    I scanned through the results and saw only 2 wins with less than three runs -- which really surprised me. I did see 7 or 8 wins with three runs or less. Better teams find a way to win a reasonable handful of 3-2, 3-1, 3-0, 2-1, 2-0 and 1-0 over the course of a season It's amazing to see just how many of those types of games you see over the course of any given week in both leagues.

    Just an average night last night -- 12 teams (40%) scored three runs or less. I suspect that's not far off the average over the course of the 2008 season.

  11. #10
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    it's interesting that we tend to value pitching over offense, but as tonight showed, it's rare when a gem of a pitching performance leads to a win. Very rare as in 1-39 with this particular team. That's the record the Reds have when getting less than 3 runs.
    You're mixing your stats. The Reds are not 1-39 when they receive "a gem of a pitching performance." They're 1-39 (actually 2-39 after tonight) when they have a dog of a hitting performance (two runs or less). That's not the same thing at all. In fact, after tonight, their won-lost record when allowing two runs or less is 28-2.
    Last edited by IslandRed; 08-21-2008 at 02:40 AM. Reason: Updated stats
    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

  12. #11
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Let's keep our finers crossed. RZ went out around here about 9:00, and I got so bored, I fell asleep in the La-Z-Boy until Cordero struck out the third straight hitter. I've never done that before, but to me there's nothing more boring than a team inept at scoring runs and playing defense (though there were some good plays tonight when I was awake). Seeing hitter hack at horrible pitches just adds to the frustration.

    Everyone was gung-ho about batting Jay Bruce third. I say it's time to move him down. He's really struggling.
    I did the same thing. Fell asleep in the 4th and woke up in the 7th. That was the first time I've ever passed out during a Reds game before.

  13. #12
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    1. Edinson Volquez
    2. Aaron Harang
    3. Johnny Cueto
    4. Bronson Arroyo
    5. Micah Owings

    The others:
    Homer Bailey
    Daryl Thompson
    Matt Maloney
    Bobby Livingston
    Matt Belisle
    Nick Masset

    Personally, if I'm bent on trading for a quality hitter, I'd be more willing to part with the likes of 'the others'. Granted, they don't have a ton of value, but if you package Homer Bailey, Matt Maloney, or Matt Belisle with some other minor leaguers, you could acquire some pretty good hitting talent since teams are so desperate for pitching.

  14. #13
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    1. Edinson Volquez
    2. Aaron Harang
    3. Johnny Cueto
    4. Bronson Arroyo
    5. Micah Owings

    The others:
    Homer Bailey
    Daryl Thompson
    Matt Maloney
    Bobby Livingston
    Matt Belisle
    Nick Masset

    Personally, if I'm bent on trading for a quality hitter, I'd be more willing to part with the likes of 'the others'. Granted, they don't have a ton of value, but if you package Homer Bailey, Matt Maloney, or Matt Belisle with some other minor leaguers, you could acquire some pretty good hitting talent since teams are so desperate for pitching.
    Maloney has limited value. Belisle has next to zero.

  15. #14
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    1. Edinson Volquez
    2. Aaron Harang
    3. Johnny Cueto
    4. Bronson Arroyo
    5. Micah Owings

    The others:
    Homer Bailey
    Daryl Thompson
    Matt Maloney
    Bobby Livingston
    Matt Belisle
    Nick Masset

    Personally, if I'm bent on trading for a quality hitter, I'd be more willing to part with the likes of 'the others'. Granted, they don't have a ton of value, but if you package Homer Bailey, Matt Maloney, or Matt Belisle with some other minor leaguers, you could acquire some pretty good hitting talent since teams are so desperate for pitching.

    it's a common mistake, but if YOU don't like a guy, then it's likely that other teams don't like him either, and will only give you back something that they don't like. Moving even more guys that you don't think much about just gets you more that another team doesn't really like.

    it's a great time to trade Arroyo. Did anyone hear about his waiver status? Has he already been waived, claimed and no deal worked out, taking him off the market? Or has he not been waived, or completely cleared?

  16. #15
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Arroyo's last 10 starts

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Maloney has limited value. Belisle has next to zero.
    True that. As the saying goes "two of crap is crap....if we really wanted to screw 'em we'll give 'em three". I know these guys aren't crap, but you get the point.
    Last edited by OldXOhio; 08-21-2008 at 09:41 AM.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.


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