Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: interesting article

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    interesting article

    I was reading article on Little Leaguer who played against Danny Almonte, and was struck by the following passage since a conversion to catcher is pretty much what I'd always been thinking for another great Little Leaguer, Todd Frazier:

    At the Cubs' pre-draft camp, they pointed Cerda toward home plate, and -- just as on the night his teammate wouldn't wear a cup -- he blurted: "I'll do it. I'll catch. I'll play anywhere." It was his first time in a chest protector since the Almonte game, and he then took BP off of the Cubs' scouting director Tim Wilken, spraying balls everywhere. Wilken was semi-awestruck. The Cubs' organizational philosophy is to take wicked hitters with average speed and high baseball IQs, and turn them into backstops. Geovany Soto, Henry Blanco and Koyie Hill were all converted to catcher at one point -- by the Cubs or someone else -- and Cerda fit the blueprint. When he left the pre-draft camp, the book on the kid was clear: great bat, better head.

    "We never want to push someone to switch positions like that, but he jumped in, hook, line and sinker," Wilken says. "He swung the bat, had a real good arm and had the kind of makeup you can't coach. It just looked like a glove that had a chance to fit."

    The Angels also remembered him from the Almonte game, but they never thought "catcher." The Red Sox, Giants and Astros also were hovering, so it was just a matter of who was going to bite first. On draft day, Cerda took his high school civics final in the morning, then parked himself by a phone. Sure enough, the Cubs called, saying they wanted to scoop him up in the third round. They said they'd be offering a $500,000 bonus, and Cerda, whose fallback option was the University of San Diego, exhaled and said, "Take me."

    But, when the third round arrived, the Cubs took a pitcher who'd unexpectedly slid down to them, Chris Carpenter. Cerda began to pace. The Angels called next, as the fourth round was revving up, but their offer was decidedly lower than Chicago's, and Cerda had the guts to tell them he preferred college. Then the Cubs called back, offering the same $500 grand in the fourth -- $115 grand more than they had offered Carpenter in the third. Again, Cerda told them, "Take me." When they did, the whole family wept, and then went to hang a Cubs flag on their front porch. Tiny Matthew Cerda was the 131st overall pick, at the surreal age of 17.


    link: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...t&lid=tab2pos1


    I also liked the in-draft negotiating
    Last edited by princeton; 08-21-2008 at 03:17 PM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    So long old friend rotnoid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati,Ohio
    Posts
    1,264

    Re: interesting article

    That's an interesting philosophy. I've always heard it said, Bob Boone notwithstanding, that catchers make the best coaches. I don't have any data to back it up, but in my experience, they usually have at least near the most baseball knowledge on the field. Antecdotal evidence for sure, but it worked with Blanco and Soto.
    I'm just like everybody else. I have two arms, two legs and 4,000 hits."

    -Pete Rose

  4. #3
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    43,280

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by rotnoid View Post
    That's an interesting philosophy. I've always heard it said, Bob Boone notwithstanding, that catchers make the best coaches. I don't have any data to back it up, but in my experience, they usually have at least near the most baseball knowledge on the field. Antecdotal evidence for sure, but it worked with Blanco and Soto.
    2 seasons ago this was the breakdown.

    30 of the current managers in baseball, 13 were catchers (43%), 7 outfielders (23%), 8 infielders (26%) and 2 1st basemen (0.66)
    I suppose it's still in that neighborhood.

    Catchers tend to see both end of the game, pitching and hitting, they also know the nuances more than the other players because they face them all head on day in and day out.

    Pitchers as managers tend to do approach hitting/pinch hitting differently, Fred Hutchinson was not shy of pulling bats and PH anyone at anytime, guys who used to be regular field players don't do that much, they wouldn't have wanted it to happen to them.

    Former IF's like Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox seem to really value defense in IF's first and foremost and often don't chase big bat guys in key defensive positions.

    Casey Stengel was platooned religiously and when he managed he too used that tool, Gene Mauch would start the worst lineups at times and Bob Boone followed that method religiously as well... as we all can remember if we drink enough to uncover that repressed reality.

  5. #4
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,548

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    I was reading article on Little Leaguer who played against Danny Almonte, and was struck by the following passage since a conversion to catcher is pretty much what I'd always been thinking for another great Little Leaguer, Todd Frazier

    It's an interesting thought. Especially for a guy like Frazier who seems to be a guy without a position. I know Dragons hitting coach Darren Bragg really likes him and his mentality. He sounds like he has all the mental tools for a catcher. However, if they would convert him, he'd pretty much have to start over again and that would delay his arrival in the big leagues. Plus he'll have to be protected on the 40 man in a year or two. You have to ask if his bat projects to be at the big league level in a couple of years, do you want to keep him in the minors learning a new position?
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  6. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Bush Leagues
    Posts
    9,345

    Re: interesting article

    It depends the ceiling of the bat, I don't want to stifle (injure) a high one with catching.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    It depends the ceiling of the bat, I don't want to stifle (injure) a high one with catching.

    right, I think that's the key point. often guys are put at catcher because of their tools plus their weak offense, and on rare occasions those guys hit a lot more than expected and teams feel inclined to re-move them

    aren't a lot of Craig Biggios out there, but Frazier could be one. Adam Rosales, OTOH...

    I suspect the Cubs got into this business because the catcher market's terrible and because it's not a baserunning era. Those things could change, but Reds ought to try it out as well.

  8. #7
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Cambridge, OH
    Posts
    19,516

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    2 seasons ago this was the breakdown.



    I suppose it's still in that neighborhood.

    Catchers tend to see both end of the game, pitching and hitting, they also know the nuances more than the other players because they face them all head on day in and day out.

    Pitchers as managers tend to do approach hitting/pinch hitting differently, Fred Hutchinson was not shy of pulling bats and PH anyone at anytime, guys who used to be regular field players don't do that much, they wouldn't have wanted it to happen to them.

    Former IF's like Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox seem to really value defense in IF's first and foremost and often don't chase big bat guys in key defensive positions.

    Casey Stengel was platooned religiously and when he managed he too used that tool, Gene Mauch would start the worst lineups at times and Bob Boone followed that method religiously as well... as we all can remember if we drink enough to uncover that repressed reality.
    Former Royals manager Tony Muser really valued 1B defense. You guessed it--he was a slick-scooping, weak-hitting 1B for the Orioles in his playing days.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    The Bush Leagues
    Posts
    9,345

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by princeton View Post
    right, I think that's the key point. often guys are put at catcher because of their tools plus their weak offense, and on rare occasions those guys hit a lot more than expected and teams feel inclined to re-move them
    And I understand that inclination. You slow a good bat like BJ Surhoff or Todd Zeile, you don't get the maximum production in the cheap years and still don't end up with a good catcher.

    I like the idea of putting a high IQ, atheletic player behind the plate. But I'd target fringe bats (as opposed to weak ones).
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  10. #9
    Member 15fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,518

    Re: interesting article

    I'd like to see the behemoths like Adam Dunn get behind the plate. They'd never lose colisions at home. Plus, if a batter ever charged the mound, the 6'6" catcher could just grab the guy by the collar and pull him to the ground before he ever got close to the mound.

  11. #10
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    7,250

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Catchers tend to see both end of the game, pitching and hitting, they also know the nuances more than the other players because they face them all head on day in and day out.
    Catchers are also forced to communicate whether it's a natural ability for them or not. And they often, no doubt, have to learn to communicate the exact same thing in five different ways to ten different people. This is notably different from what anybody else on the field has to do, and I have to think it's an invaluable trait for a manager.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  12. #11
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,772

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post





    Catchers tend to see both end of the game, pitching and hitting, they also know the nuances more than the other players because they face them all head on day in and day out.
    .
    Ex catchers also for the most part make great umpires. A couple guys I ump with were either top notch HS or College catchers and they are outstanding umpires. It has alot to do with seeing so many pitches and having a good idea where the strike zone is.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  13. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    10,071

    Re: interesting article

    I've been saying it for a while, Juan Francisco is the best candidate to convert to catcher. Good bat yet needs a lot more time in the minors to refine plate discipline, solid build, strong arm, no real position.
    Go BLUE!!!

  14. #13
    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    1,727

    Re: interesting article

    Or Waring, or even Soto...we're loaded with guys with strong arms but not quite the range for a middle infielder. The key is finding one who would embrace the change as a faster route to the bigs.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

  15. #14
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,491

    Re: interesting article

    This is part of the reason we see a lot of Latin catchers. They are told that if they convert to catcher, they will reach the Major Leagues more quickly.

  16. #15
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Indianapolis
    Posts
    4,772

    Re: interesting article

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    They are told that if they convert to catcher, they will reach the Major Leagues more quickly.
    Ted Bench told young Johnny that the quickest way to get to the top was catcher.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25