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Thread: September call up rules

  1. #1
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    September call up rules

    I'm I the only one that thinks the rule that a player has to be on the 40 man roster to be called up in September is stupid. I could see only 40 man roster player being eligible for the playoffs but for clubs like the Reds that are clearly out of contention why not let young players come up and get some ABs and a taste of the big leagues, even if they are no on the 40 man. Reward some guys who have busted ther fannies all year, or on the precipice of jumping to the next level anyway. It would go way to reward some players for hard work and/or to evaluate some of the younger guys that have some real potential. sometimes it seems that the baseball people let the lawyers run the game with stupid rules.
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


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  3. #2
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    I see your point, but I think the MLBPA's likely the villain here. Their interest is in reserving those callups for players that a club is serious enough about promoting to keep on the 40-man.
    /r/reds

  4. #3
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    Service time accelerates earning potential, thus there is a limit on how it is applied and how it is managed. The team doesn't want to accelerate a prospect a year or two away and waste an option, thus you get more guys popping back up after years away, or you get guys who were ML FA's or who are out of options, you won't see guys fromm AA that they like a lot unless talent or age is driving their bus in the fast lane.

  5. #4
    Go Reds Go! UKFlounder's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    Expanding rosters just in time for the playoff run is itself, IMO, a bad rule. Why should a team have extra players just because it's late in the year (and it's worse if a team uses call-ups against a contender.)

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    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Service time accelerates earning potential, thus there is a limit on how it is applied and how it is managed. The team doesn't want to accelerate a prospect a year or two away and waste an option, thus you get more guys popping back up after years away, or you get guys who were ML FA's or who are out of options, you won't see guys from AA that they like a lot unless talent or age is driving their bus in the fast lane.
    It's my understanding that calling them up in Sept doesn't waste an option. An option is burned when you send them back to the minors. Am I correct? Please chime in.

    However the team doesn't want to throw guys on the 40 man that they don't want in March because removing a guy from the 40 man exposes them to waivers so far as I know.

  7. #6
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    It's my understanding that calling them up in Sept doesn't waste an option. An option is burned when you send them back to the minors. Am I correct? Please chime in.
    Correct. You only burn an option when you send them down.

    However the team doesn't want to throw guys on the 40 man that they don't want in March because removing a guy from the 40 man exposes them to waivers so far as I know.
    Correct again. Plus you have to figure in who needs to be protected as opposed to who doesn't. A guy like Stubbs you don't necessarily want to call up because he doesn't need to be protected.
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    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    And while you won't burn an option calling him up, you will burn one the next spring sending him back down when he doesn't make the Opening Day roster. So unless your September callup sticks you're going to use an option, it's just a matter of when.

  9. #8
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Danny Serafini View Post
    And while you won't burn an option calling him up, you will burn one the next spring sending him back down when he doesn't make the Opening Day roster. So unless your September callup sticks you're going to use an option, it's just a matter of when.
    Right, so it really boils down to whether a prospect needs to be protected on the 40 man next year. I don't know if Stubbs will need that protection in 2009. If he does then there's no risk in adding him now because he'll burn an option next year anyway.

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    Re: September call up rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Right, so it really boils down to whether a prospect needs to be protected on the 40 man next year. I don't know if Stubbs will need that protection in 2009. If he does then there's no risk in adding him now because he'll burn an option next year anyway.
    The implication is that the front office thinks that far ahead.

    Looking at the way the Dunn, Junior, Ross deals happened, does anybody think that about this front office?
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  11. #10
    Ya can't teach speed... Triples's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    See, everyone is getting hung up on the current rules governing the 40 man roster. My point is, why can't there be a rule that exempts players from all those rules if they are not on the 40 man as of September 1st and would not be also not be eligible for play in the playoffs. The latter is probably moot because teams in playoff contention would likely not call up a bunch of guys not on the 40 man roster. But all the others could get a good look at some hungry players to see if they really have what it takes to play at the major league level I'm certain the players would jump at the chance and not care to hoots about the clock ticking on arbitration, etc. The rule paints the lesser clubs into a corner and it allows the old vets who think they have it made to coast the last few weeks of the season. A little heat from a young guy might just motivate that vet into putting in a little extra time in the off season. Its a win win. It does appear as on poster noted that its the MLPA that is the problem. Another stupid union rule that protects the elite players and does nothing to help the younger players (aka their future gravey train).
    Baseball, it is said, is only a game. True. And the Grand Canyon is only a hole in Arizona. Not all holes, or games, are created equal. ~George Will


  12. #11
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    It does appear as on poster noted that its the MLPA that is the problem. Another stupid union rule that protects the elite players and does nothing to help the younger players (aka their future gravey train).
    Actually the MLPA does WAY more for younger players than the players/owners/gm's ever did in the prior 90 years to its existence. Things that transcend a couple of AB's in the GAB in September in front of a zillion empty seats.

  13. #12
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: September call up rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Triples View Post
    My point is, why can't there be a rule that exempts players from all those rules if they are not on the 40 man as of September 1st and would not be also not be eligible for play in the playoffs.
    Maybe because no one within baseball is asking for it?

    These kids, even if granted some magic exemption from being placed on the 40-man roster, still would be getting paid major-league money and accruing major-league service time. It's not worth it unless there's playing time available. Hardly anyone uses all their available 40-man callups as it is.

    Furthermore, for every team that's willing to treat September as the beginning of next year's spring training, there are two that are still trying to sell tickets or get to the playoffs and don't want to see teams intentionally tanking by turning September into a tryout camp. Majority rules.
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