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Thread: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

  1. #16
    Member Razor Shines's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg View Post
    I'm not sure I understand what the big deal is with 40 mph. That is not that fast, even for 9-years old. I understand that 9 is the first year for "kid pitch", but seriously 40 mph is not bringing it that hard. Maybe it's a misprint and he's going 50-60. I pitched to my 7 and 8 year old's this past season nearly that hard. The kids liked it thrown harder. In fact, they said it was easier to hit than when our other coach lobbed them in there (in a big arc).

    Pitch much slower than 30 mph and the ball might not make it to the catcher. 40 is not a big deal.
    I agree I started out umpiring this age. 40mph is just slightly above average. Honestly just about every team at that age had a kid who threw 40 or better. That must be just a sucky league.

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  3. #17
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor Shines View Post
    I agree I started out umpiring this age. 40mph is just slightly above average. Honestly just about every team at that age had a kid who threw 40 or better. That must be just a sucky league.
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  4. #18
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Self esteme is built by having the kids practice and learn how to hit this kids 40mph heater. Imagine how good the kids will feal when they knock the king off the hill.

    Self esteme is NOT built by removing every single obsticale to the childs success and creating an artifical environment.

    I'm tired of parents worrying about self-esteme. It's a byproduct, not an end goal.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  5. #19
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Self esteme is built by having the kids practice and learn how to hit this kids 40mph heater. Imagine how good the kids will feal when they knock the king off the hill.

    Self esteme is NOT built by removing every single obsticale to the childs success and creating an artifical environment.

    I'm tired of parents worrying about self-esteme. It's a byproduct, not an end goal.

    Having kids myself, I don't think self-esteem has anything to do with it. I sign my kids up to have fun and get some exercise. If they aren't having fun, I'm not wasting my money. I wonder if the league has had people stop bringing their kids or signing up for other leagues because they weren't having fun playing against this kid.

    I don't think any kid finds it fun to go up against a kid who is throwing hard enough to strike everybody out, and at some point, I think its got to be no fun for the kid to not be challenged. Whether its sports or academics, I think talented kids should be encouraged to work with kids of similar skill level.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Awesome lesson to teach the kids.... if someone is better than you at something, quit. Better yet, complain enough to get them kicked out so it makes you look better! Thats the ticket!

  7. #21
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    I just can't believe this is a true story. If I hadn't already heard this story, if someone told me that this happened in the States, I wouldn't believe it. Maybe there's a big, important part of the story being left out.

  8. #22
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Having kids myself, I don't think self-esteem has anything to do with it. I sign my kids up to have fun and get some exercise. If they aren't having fun, I'm not wasting my money. I wonder if the league has had people stop bringing their kids or signing up for other leagues because they weren't having fun playing against this kid.

    I don't think any kid finds it fun to go up against a kid who is throwing hard enough to strike everybody out, and at some point, I think its got to be no fun for the kid to not be challenged. Whether its sports or academics, I think talented kids should be encouraged to work with kids of similar skill level.
    Is this kid the only pitcher in the entire league? Do the kids ever face a different pitcher that is closer to their skill level?

    My guess is no, there are other pitchers in this league. So an individual batter is facing this monster how many times a season? Meanwhile they are facing the normal kids how many times a season? So the kids face a tough pitcher once out of 7 other teams and normal kids the rest of the time. Big fricken deal. Serriously. This is one pitcher. To me, this is an excellent teaching moment that is being completely missed.

    Sorry but if these kids "aren't having fun" over an entire baseball season becuase they get dominated from time to time then the parents have failed. Miserably. Horrifically. This league is allegidly a "developmental" league. Well, sports is supposed to be about body and mind and this is a perfect opportunity to help develop the kids mind.

    Unless this is the only pitcher these kids ever face, then the "real" issue is some parents can't stand to watch their kids fail. They'd rather create an artifical environment so little Treveor can be a superstar than teaching a kid to either overcome or deal with defeat.
    Last edited by Ltlabner; 08-27-2008 at 08:47 AM.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate

  9. #23
    Member durl's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Self esteme is built by having the kids practice and learn how to hit this kids 40mph heater. Imagine how good the kids will feal when they knock the king off the hill.

    Self esteme is NOT built by removing every single obsticale to the childs success and creating an artifical environment.

    I'm tired of parents worrying about self-esteme. It's a byproduct, not an end goal.
    I agree.

    I read an interesting quote the other day that said, basically, that "self-esteem" has replaced "self-respect" as a goal by too many parents. There's a huge difference.

  10. #24
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    I am sure everyone who played little league played with or against a pitcher that was borderline unhittable for most players in the league. We never walked off the field because we could not hit the Harmon brothers we just took our lumps and tried to improve.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  11. #25
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Ltlabner View Post
    Is this kid the only pitcher in the entire league? Do the kids ever face a different pitcher that is closer to their skill level?

    My guess is no, there are other pitchers in this league. So an individual batter is facing this monster how many times a season? Meanwhile they are facing the normal kids how many times a season? So the kids face a tough pitcher once out of 7 other teams and normal kids the rest of the time. Big fricken deal. Serriously. This is one pitcher. To me, this is an excellent teaching moment that is being completely missed.

    Sorry but if these kids "aren't having fun" over an entire baseball season becuase they get dominated from time to time then the parents have failed. Miserably. Horrifically. This league is allegidly a "developmental" league. Well, sports is supposed to be about body and mind and this is a perfect opportunity to help develop the kids mind.

    Unless this is the only pitcher these kids ever face, then the "real" issue is some parents can't stand to watch their kids fail. They'd rather create an artifical environment so little Treveor can be a superstar than teaching a kid to either overcome or deal with defeat.
    Actually, we don't know the whole story because its written to be sensational and grab our attention. I keep waiting for other facts to come out, like there are only a few teams in the league or that the organization that runs the league has another league for the better kids and this league is the one for first-time players. Or maybe the kid's birth certificate will come out and show he's really 11. Of course it could be really that some other team is jealous they didn't get him and are raising a stink. We don't know all the facts, so I won't jump to conclusions on society as a whole based on this one article.

    As far as parents' choices for their kids, that's their prerogative as parents. If they want their kids in a league that doesn't keep score and gives out juice boxes and animal crackers after every game and everyone gets a participation trophy, that's fine. But by the same token, if parents want their kid in a league where the kids face tough challenges from other kids so that they have to strive hard to win, that's fine too.

    It's the same thing with school and academics. Some parents want to hold their kids back a grade. Others put their kids in special advanced programs to give them more challenges. Do you have a problem with that? Would you rather all the kids of the same age were put in the same class so that the kids who couldn't keep up with the smart kids had to take their "F"s and deal with it, even if it was only for one class, like Math or Reading? Would that be okay if they still had other classes where they were with kids that weren't that smart?
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  12. #26
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Articles from the New Haven Register with more detail.... As with most stories, the truth lies somewhere between everyone's stories and also with things that aren't being said.

    http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?...d=624602&rfi=8

    http://www.zwire.com/site/index.cfm?...d=624602&rfi=8

    I'm all for different level leagues for different reasons for playing. Participation is always key.

    I've seen rec leagues where some talented kid comes in and smokes the opposition and its no fun. I've seen travel/select teams where parents have forced their lesser-talented kid onto the team and the kid gets repeatedly smoked and that's no fun either. In either of these cases, I don't think many lessons get learned besides what its like to get your brains beat in.

    But what I wish for above all is for adults to be adults and resolve these things in an adult way. Once it get in the press and into the courts, it all get silly.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  13. #27
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Let's sign him up, maybe he can replace Fogg in the rotation?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  14. #28
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Would you rather all the kids of the same age were put in the same class so that the kids who couldn't keep up with the smart kids had to take their "F"s and deal with it, even if it was only for one class, like Math or Reading? Would that be okay if they still had other classes where they were with kids that weren't that smart?
    I think the overall point is that, while it's good to put kids in an environment that allows them to maximize their potential and succeed, at some point the big bad world comes a-calling.

    It's a cruel, tough, and generally unforgiving world out there. You're constantly being judged -- by potential employers, bosses, members of the opposite sex, clients, etc. You are rarely the best at anything you do, you're frequently placed into competition with people who are as smart/qualified or moreseo than you are, and any "allowances" or "considerations" made are generally made not on merit but on cronyism or nepotism. Life just isn't a fair place.

    So, is it good for a kid to take "F" grades and keep dealing with it? No, probably not. But, is it OK to keep adjusting things so that the child keeps getting "A" and "B" grades against artificially inferior competition? Maybe not. Parents know their own children best and often know how best to get the most out of their children -- but sometimes (especially lately) it seems that the world has become so obssessed with letting children succeed that it has forgotten to teach them how to fail.
    Championships Matter.
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  15. #29
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I think the overall point is that, while it's good to put kids in an environment that allows them to maximize their potential and succeed, at some point the big bad world comes a-calling.

    It's a cruel, tough, and generally unforgiving world out there. You're constantly being judged -- by potential employers, bosses, members of the opposite sex, clients, etc. You are rarely the best at anything you do, you're frequently placed into competition with people who are as smart/qualified or moreseo than you are, and any "allowances" or "considerations" made are generally made not on merit but on cronyism or nepotism. Life just isn't a fair place.

    So, is it good for a kid to take "F" grades and keep dealing with it? No, probably not. But, is it OK to keep adjusting things so that the child keeps getting "A" and "B" grades against artificially inferior competition? Maybe not. Parents know their own children best and often know how best to get the most out of their children -- but sometimes (especially lately) it seems that the world has become so obssessed with letting children succeed that it has forgotten to teach them how to fail.
    I think kids figure that stuff all on their own. I can tell you they start dealing with that amongst themselves in preschool. It's human nature. Nobody's trying to tell these kids they can't lose.

    The more I read about this, the more it sounds like the dispute is as much between team sponsors as it is about the kid. Those articles Roy linked to mention the team sponsor, Will Power, almost as much as the kid. The league has even offered to help the kid get on a select team or a travel team to play with kids at his skill level. I almost want to say that the other team in the league that was mentioned was last year's champ and the Will Power team went out and found themselves a ringer. The parents probably have some relationship with the sponsor that encouraged them to put the kid on that team. Other teams, especially last year's champ, knowing the kid is a ringer, complained and threatened to quit the league, so the league tried to step in and force a solution that ended up making a hash of things. This kid of stuff has been going on in youth baseball since I played and probably longer. It's just that we didn't have the internet to make a national case out of it.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  16. #30
    2009: Fail Ltlabner's Avatar
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    Re: Leauge Rules That 9 Year Old is Too Good

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    It's the same thing with school and academics. Some parents want to hold their kids back a grade. Others put their kids in special advanced programs to give them more challenges. Do you have a problem with that? Would you rather all the kids of the same age were put in the same class so that the kids who couldn't keep up with the smart kids had to take their "F"s and deal with it, even if it was only for one class, like Math or Reading? Would that be okay if they still had other classes where they were with kids that weren't that smart?
    There's a world of difference between education and playing baseball in a youth league. Most reasonable people would agree to that.

    I don't have any problem with a parent that decides they want to hold their child back or have their child pushed into advanced classes. But that's totally different than a parent deciding the other kid should be moved because it isn't fair to their child.

    I want to hold my kid back, no prob. I want your kid kicked out of class because he always gets A's and destroys the curve? Assinine.
    a super volcano of ridonkulous suckitude.

    I simply don't have access to a "cares about RBI" place in my psyche. There is a "mildly curious about OBI%" alcove just before the acid filled lake guarded by robot snipers with lasers which leads to the "cares about RBI" antechamber though. - Nate


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