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Thread: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    His defense, despite his range, is still not perfect, and his batting average is not as high as it was last year. Still, this club is starving for more production from the right side of the dish, not less. It is fashionable to want to put Votto in the outfield, but even moreso to want to ship Edwin somewhere for chaffe because he doesn't look like a hustler... or something nondescript...

    This guy is a cornerstone of the new Reds. I like him as a third baseman, but I like him as a corner outfielder if that is what it takes to call off the dogs. I just don't care what it takes to keep him in the lineup as he continutes to develop. It is exasperating to me that the club might be considering a free agent for multi-millions of dollars just to match what Edwin is starting to resemble.

    I sincerely hope the doubt that continues to plague Edwin is a media creation, and the club understands what it has on it's hands.

    He is maturing into a true offensive force from the right side of the plate to sandwich in between Bruce and Votto.

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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Honest question to you...

    If he didn't hit the grand slam tonight, would you have still made this post?

    I'm sure everything you stated above still stands, but it seems all too common at RZ that someone will start threads like these after the said player has a big game.

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Honest question to you...

    If he didn't hit the grand slam tonight, would you have still made this post?

    I'm sure everything you stated above still stands, but it seems all too common at RZ that someone will start threads like these after the said player has a big game.

    Valid question, but I like Edwin every night of the week. I have no idea why he draws so much negative attention. I read and hear the geniuses who cover this team try to dismiss his production every other day, it seems. Jeff Keppinger's ceiling is a super utility guy that can punch a liner through the infield late in a ballgame, and yet people continue to propagate him as a viable replacement for Edwin even if we traded him for a loogy. It's ridiculous. The drop off between Kep and Edwin is evil.

    The only thing I would try to change about Edwin is his offseason schedule. It is my opinion he gets fatiqued from playing winter ball and suffers for extended periods of the major league season because of it.

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    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    I don't see what others see in him. Plain and simple. I don't have faith in him. He seems in a fog a lot of times--just like tonight when he stood at the plate after ball 4, not knowing what the count was. I think this plays over to his defensive play at times. He seemingly doesn't have a clue.

    These are fighting words I know, but I agree with fearofpopvol1. For too long these pages have proclaimed Edwin to be the great player he is not. He's OK, that's all. I think the Reds need a better third baseman than a kid who, at 25 years old, still goes into periods of seemingly being totally clueless at the plate and in the field. He seems to come out in these blowouts (if you can consider tonight's game a blowout), but when he's needed to get the big hit, he swings at pitches he cannot hit or is so impatient at the plate that he fails time after time.

    Like I said, he's adequate even with the throwing blumders, but as a third baseman to build a club around...no. I think it's time (and I believe the powers that be know this) to get what you can out of him and move on. He will not improve on his career .267 career average and low RBI totals for his position. He's fool's gold. Just like Jeff Keppinger at shortstop, the position needs to be upgraded. Whether or not this is possible and looking at what's available, he may be the best we can do, but I'm tied of this "he's young" argument.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    I don't think EE is a cornerstone talent on a playoff team, but he's a cost-effective solid contributor and right now that's basically tied with BP and Votto for the best we've got. But as the price tag goes up, and it starts next season, EE is going to be judged increasingly for what he's not.

    Cincinnatians, like most midwesterners, value effort, attitude, and a sense of community more than production or results. It's that simple and has been for as long as I've been alive. It's the classic pre-industrial /depression era protestant-work-ethic value system we're all intimately familiar with.

    The guy doesn't look one of "us". He doesn't look like he's trying as hard as he could be. And perhaps worst of all, he's inconsistent in terms of doing what "regular" people value most from their baseball players, hitting for a high batting average and making the routine play. It's a wonderful recipe for scaped goat. Every throw over 1B is seen as a moral failing, just as Dunn's Ks were. Every failed RBI further proof of his laziness.

    And EE will be run out of here by the fan base the same way Dunn was. Without Dunn and Junior, EE is actually the longest tenured Reds position player, just ahead of Phillips. As such, he's going to bear the weight of the lack of talent around him as a multiplier against his own failings.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 08-30-2008 at 01:53 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    I like Edwin a lot more if he happens to make a Ryan Braun type move to the outfield. He is a solid offensive player right now and I think for the next 5-7 years he will be an above average hitter, but his defense at third base negates all of what his offense brings.

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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    His defense, despite his range, is still not perfect, and his batting average is not as high as it was last year. Still, this club is starving for more production from the right side of the dish, not less. It is fashionable to want to put Votto in the outfield, but even moreso to want to ship Edwin somewhere for chaffe because he doesn't look like a hustler... or something nondescript...

    This guy is a cornerstone of the new Reds. I like him as a third baseman, but I like him as a corner outfielder if that is what it takes to call off the dogs. I just don't care what it takes to keep him in the lineup as he continutes to develop. It is exasperating to me that the club might be considering a free agent for multi-millions of dollars just to match what Edwin is starting to resemble.

    I sincerely hope the doubt that continues to plague Edwin is a media creation, and the club understands what it has on it's hands.

    He is maturing into a true offensive force from the right side of the plate to sandwich in between Bruce and Votto.
    I agree. I am an Edwin Encarnacion fan. (spoken in the voice of Office Space.) In another couple years when he gets more expensive, I may have a different perspective, but until then- I stand behind EdE
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    [QUOTE=WVRedsFan;1732149]I don't see what others see in him.

    You aint lookin'. You just listen and believe.

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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't think EE is a cornerstone talent on a playoff team, but he's a cost-effective solid contributor and right now that's basically tied with BP and Votto for the best we've got. But as the price tag goes up, and it starts next season, EE is going to be judged increasingly for what he's not.

    Cincinnatians, like most midwesterners, value effort, attitude, and a sense of community more than production or results. It's that simple and has been for as long as I've been alive. It's the classic pre-industrial /depression era protestant-work-ethic value system we're all intimately familiar with.

    The guy doesn't look one of "us". He doesn't look like he's trying as hard as he could be. And perhaps worst of all, he's inconsistent in terms of doing what "regular" people value most from their baseball players, hitting for a high batting average and making the routine play. It's a wonderful recipe for scaped goat. Every throw over 1B is seen as a moral failing, just as Dunn's Ks were. Every failed RBI further proof of his laziness.

    And EE will be run out of here by the fan base the same way Dunn was. Without Dunn and Junior, EE is actually the longest tenured Reds position player, just ahead of Phillips. As such, he's going to bear the weight of the lack of talent around him as a multiplier against his own failings.
    I think there is a LOT Of truth to this post. I think the bigger problem is the Reds just need better players. I don't think EdE will ever be the star of the team and I don't think he would be the star on any really good team. That's not to say he's not a good player (as he is having a good offensive season), but he needs other good players surrounding him because he's not a (super)star.

    I also agree with Doug, I really think his defense hurts his overall value. I'd try him out in LF.

  11. #10
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    I think EdE is productive enough for 3B. Not sure if he's productive enough for LF. I really think Votto's lack of ability to pick it is more harmful in the IF than EdE is and with Alonso probably arriving at some point in 2009, Votto's the guy I'd move to LF (his bat probably would be better out there than EdE anyway IMO).

    If EdE's defense settles down, he could be a long term 3B IMO. If the defense doesn't improve, he's a guy to replace in the next year or two. Right now there really isn't an adequate replacement ready (Rosales and Keppinger are supersubs IMO and not every day 3B), but the line is quite long for guys ready by 2010. Todd Frazier may be a guy there and Neftali Soto looks like a player for the future. Juan Francisco has big power with favorable reports about his defense and should be in AA in 2009. Brandon Waring is also a guy to consider. Add that Chris Valaika may eventually have to move there if his glove doesn't hold up in the MI, and EdE looks like a guy to deal at some point in 2009 or afterwards. The team may be better off dealing him this offseason when he's a little cheaper and the return may be a little better. Rosales and Keppinger could be stopgap players until one of the kids is ready.

    EdE's future in Cincy seems to be entirely based on what he could bring in return. If he gets back a tasty SS of the future or a decent starting pitcher, then I'd probably deal him and get by with the stopgaps until one of the kids takes the job. If the return is mediocre, I'd probably keep EdE and shop a couple of the kids for what the team needs.
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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    I believe Edwin has the most talent of any young infeilder in the Reds organization.

    That is cause for alarm.

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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    I don't see what others see in him. Plain and simple. I don't have faith in him. He seems in a fog a lot of times--just like tonight when he stood at the plate after ball 4, not knowing what the count was. I think this plays over to his defensive play at times. He seemingly doesn't have a clue.

    These are fighting words I know, but I agree with fearofpopvol1. For too long these pages have proclaimed Edwin to be the great player he is not. He's OK, that's all. I think the Reds need a better third baseman than a kid who, at 25 years old, still goes into periods of seemingly being totally clueless at the plate and in the field. He seems to come out in these blowouts (if you can consider tonight's game a blowout), but when he's needed to get the big hit, he swings at pitches he cannot hit or is so impatient at the plate that he fails time after time.

    Like I said, he's adequate even with the throwing blumders, but as a third baseman to build a club around...no. I think it's time (and I believe the powers that be know this) to get what you can out of him and move on. He will not improve on his career .267 career average and low RBI totals for his position. He's fool's gold. Just like Jeff Keppinger at shortstop, the position needs to be upgraded. Whether or not this is possible and looking at what's available, he may be the best we can do, but I'm tied of this "he's young" argument.
    You don't understand what he brings to the Reds. When you are evaluating him on his batting average and RBIs then your argument doesn't hold much water. Compare him to other third baseman in the NL and see what you get.
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    You don't understand what he brings to the Reds. When you are evaluating him on his batting average and RBIs then your argument doesn't hold much water. Compare him to other third baseman in the NL and see what you get.
    which show's he's pretty much average offensively, and below average defensively...i like edwin, but he can be extremely frustrating to watch at times...

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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    He seems to come out in these blowouts (if you can consider tonight's game a blowout), but when he's needed to get the big hit, he swings at pitches he cannot hit or is so impatient at the plate that he fails time after time.
    I didn't see last night's game, I just read the newspaper reports. Sounds like it was somewhat of a blow-out due in large part to EE. What, 5 RBI in a 4 run win?

    From Fay's blog- He came into this year as a .486 hitter with the bases juiced.
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    Re: Why Exactly is Edwin Encarnacion Still a Questin Mark?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I like Edwin a lot more if he happens to make a Ryan Braun type move to the outfield. He is a solid offensive player right now and I think for the next 5-7 years he will be an above average hitter, but his defense at third base negates all of what his offense brings.
    Yep. He's basically a slightly above average bat at third while being one of the worst defensive third baseman in the majors.

    He could have a monster season with the bat (such a thing is within his skillset), but I don't think it would be a repeatable thing.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner


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