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Thread: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

  1. #46
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    Thanks for bringing the topic back to who will be promoted. I see Stubbs starting his ML career (provided he is in good health) in CF but can play in RF too. Dickerson can play CF to spell Stubbs. I see Dorn getting some time in LF to spell Jay Bruce, who should be playing LF.
    After that pathetic throw in the 7th inning today, I'm sick of seeing Bruce in RF. He needed to nail that guy, but he couldn't. He can't play there right now. He is not playing ML average defense. I'm willing to give him time to receive some instruction but someone better tell this kid that the Larry Walker comparisons have ended because of things like his poor defense.
    Did you see Larry Walker play when he was 21?

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  3. #47
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Did you see Larry Walker play when he was 21?
    I agree in that Bruce will turn out to be a monster to the agony of every other team in the Central division. I also am continually amazed that so few fail to recognize the potential of Dorn, as a bona-fide contender for an OF position. He's a
    .270+, 30-35 Hr type, who is a much better fielder than Dunn ever showed. Let's not be in such a hurry to sign big name FAs, whose presence would stymie the "long range plan", of developing from within the organization.

  4. #48
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by gedred69 View Post
    I agree in that Bruce will turn out to be a monster to the agony of every other team in the Central division. I also am continually amazed that so few fail to recognize the potential of Dorn, as a bona-fide contender for an OF position. He's a
    .270+, 30-35 Hr type, who is a much better fielder than Dunn ever showed. Let's not be in such a hurry to sign big name FAs, whose presence would stymie the "long range plan", of developing from within the organization.
    Votto, Bruce, Dorn and Alonso. That's a lot of lefties in the middle of the line-up, three of which have real problems with LH pitching. Better than a lot of righties, though.

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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    He's 21 years old. And his defense has been far from pathetic. He's made some excellent plays while messing up some easier ones. It happens with young players.
    I said the throw was pathetic. It was weak and off-line. He definitely didn't display a top scouting grade arm on that throw. Has he shown a good arm in another key situation? Tell me what game and I'll gladly view the video to hopefully erase today's awful image from my mind.

  6. #50
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Votto, Bruce, Dorn and Alonso. That's a lot of lefties in the middle of the line-up. Three of which have real problems with LH pitching. Better than a lot of righties, though.
    The lefty/righty thing gets overplayed WAY too much. If you have 4 lefties that can hit lefties, who cares if you have 4 lefties? Its when you get 4 guys that hit like Chris Dickerson against lefties that it becomes a problem.

  7. #51
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    I said the throw was pathetic. It was weak and off-line. He definitely didn't display a top scouting grade arm on that throw. Has he shown a good arm in another key situation? Tell me what game and I'll gladly view the video to hopefully erase today's awful image from my mind.
    Yes, he has. I don't know the exact game, but he has multiple times this year.

  8. #52
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The lefty/righty thing gets overplayed WAY too much. If you have 4 lefties that can hit lefties, who cares if you have 4 lefties? Its when you get 4 guys that hit like Chris Dickerson against lefties that it becomes a problem.
    Yeah, but Votto's the only one that can hit lefties.

  9. #53
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    Yeah, but Votto's the only one that can hit lefties.
    I really don't think Bruce will have a problem with lefties in a year or two. He never really struggled with them in the minor leagues. Dorn won't play against lefties, so that one shouldn't matter.

  10. #54
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    I said the throw was pathetic. It was weak and off-line. He definitely didn't display a top scouting grade arm on that throw. Has he shown a good arm in another key situation? Tell me what game and I'll gladly view the video to hopefully erase today's awful image from my mind.
    So his arm is bad because of one throw? He's already got six outfield assists in three+ months since getting called up. You want video? Go back and watch the August 6th game against the Brewers. That's the game where Bruce made a leaping catch against the foul wall in right field and threw Bill Hall out at first base. A few innings later he threw Prince Fielder out at home from fairly deep right field. Dude has a cannon for an arm. Anyone who says his arm isn't good hasn't been paying much attention.

  11. #55
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    I said the throw was pathetic. It was weak and off-line. He definitely didn't display a top scouting grade arm on that throw. Has he shown a good arm in another key situation? Tell me what game and I'll gladly view the video to hopefully erase today's awful image from my mind.
    I've not seen enough to draw any final conclusions, but from the 8-10 throws I have seen, Bruce's arm doesn't impress me in terms of strength nor accuracy.

    OF assists are more about the difference between the perception of your arm and it's ability. When you are new to the league (or the position), you often get many good opportunities to throw out runners because the coaches don't yet know any better.

    Junior has more RF assists this year than Ichiro. Assists are about as useful a metric as fielding percentage.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 09-08-2008 at 12:42 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #56
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    For those who are unimpressed with Bruce's arm strength, I recommend you going back and watching video of that August 6th game against the Brewers. He threw a bullet from 20-25 feet in front of the warning track on a straight line to nail Prince Fielder at the plate. That's one of the better throws I've seen an outfielder make in a long time.
    Last edited by OnBaseMachine; 09-08-2008 at 03:05 PM.

  13. #57
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    For those who are unimpressed with Bruce's arm strength, I recommend you going back and watching video of that August 6th game against the Brewers. He threw a bullet from 20-25 feet in front of the warning track on a straight line to nail Prince Fielder at the plate. That's one of the better throws I've seen an outfielder make in a long time.
    You and I usually don't disagree much but I have to here. Josh Hamilton has a cannon, imo Bruce has a slightly above average arm, a tad bit better than Griffey the '08 version. I didn't see the Fielder play but it was Prince Fielder and although he runs ok for as big as he is he still isn't real fast.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  14. #58
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    You and I usually don't disagree much but I have to here. Josh Hamilton has a cannon, imo Bruce has a slightly above average arm, a tad bit better than Griffey the '08 version. I didn't see the Fielder play but it was Prince Fielder and although he runs ok for as big as he is he still isn't real fast.
    It doesn't matter who is running, you've gotta have some amazing arm strength when you're standing 20-25 feet in front of the warning track and throw a ball on a straight line to home.

  15. #59
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    *edited*
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 09-08-2008 at 09:42 PM. Reason: overkill
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  16. #60
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    Re: Who advances to the bigs in '09?

    The Jay Bruce I've seen has a great arm. Not a Josh Hamilton arm but a great arm nonetheless.


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