Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 92

Thread: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,595

    Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Why?

    1. His numbers at a glance ( 21 homers & 23 SB ) look better than his true numbers ( OPS+ of 88, 105 & 93 the last 3 seasons and inability to hit RHP )

    He is really a guy who should hit 6th or 7th and we have a lot of these guys already.

    2. He could be attractive to teams. I could envision him being part of a Matt Holliday trade.

    3. We have oodles of players whose best position is 2B - Kep, Richar, Valaika.
    Rosales could play here. Heck we could even bring back Hairston.

    4. He was not on Walt's untouchable list.
    .

  2. #2
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    I wouldn't trade BP unless the return was too much to pass up. He's signed at a reasonable value and he's the best defender the Reds have. Trading the plus players who are signed to reasonable contrace isn't the way to get better.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  3. #3
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,595

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I wouldn't trade BP unless the return was too much to pass up. He's signed at a reasonable value and he's the best defender the Reds have. Trading the plus players who are signed to reasonable contrace isn't the way to get better.
    Theres the rub. Is he really a 'plus player'? Yes he can pick it at 2B but his bat isn't that great. Since we have oodles of other options for 2B I think he will get shopped this offseason to fill the holes we have. Now if the Reds moved him to SS that would be another issue but the Reds have shown no signs of wanting him to play SS.
    .

  4. #4
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Theres the rub. Is he really a 'plus player'? Yes he can pick it at 2B but his bat isn't that great. Since we have oodles of other options for 2B I think he will get shopped this offseason to fill the holes we have. Now if the Reds moved him to SS that would be another issue but the Reds have shown no signs of wanting him to play SS.
    I'm all for shopping him, but it would take a lot for me to pat with him. I think he's definitely a plus player. He does just about everthing well but take walks. He's fast, has some pop, and plays superb defense. I wouldn't undersell his defense. I would feel differently if he had a huge contract, but he doesn't. He's set to make $11.5MM over the next two seasons. He's the type of guy you keep.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  5. #5
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,540

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I'm all for shopping him, but it would take a lot for me to pat with him. I think he's definitely a plus player. He does just about everthing well but take walks. He's fast, has some pop, and plays superb defense. I wouldn't undersell his defense. I would feel differently if he had a huge contract, but he doesn't. He's set to make $11.5MM over the next two seasons. He's the type of guy you keep.

    If that's the way you feel then you ought to be for getting rid of him right now. As several have stated, he is due big money in future years. So if money is a concern (and with this team it should be) then the time to move him is now.

    I don't sense the front office wanting to move him but if they did I'd understand why

  6. #6
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    20,932

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I'm all for shopping him, but it would take a lot for me to pat with him. I think he's definitely a plus player. He does just about everthing well but take walks. He's fast, has some pop, and plays superb defense. I wouldn't undersell his defense. I would feel differently if he had a huge contract, but he doesn't. He's set to make $11.5MM over the next two seasons. He's the type of guy you keep.
    Exactly. We should be trying to acquire more guys like Phillips, not dump them.

    It's not Phillips fault that he has been forced to be the primary run producer. Get more bats and then push him down.

    Putting Keppinger or someone like that at 2b would be a huge downgrade.

    I'm not saying Phillips is untouchable, nobody is to me. But we darn well better get a great return for him.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    princeton, nj
    Posts
    9,482

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    Is he really a 'plus player'?
    yes

  8. #8
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    34,844

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    I wouldn't trade BP unless the return was too much to pass up. He's signed at a reasonable value and he's the best defender the Reds have. Trading the plus players who are signed to reasonable contrace isn't the way to get better.
    Agreed. It would take a huge return for me to deal Phillips.

    Phillips is a good player but he's not a cleanup hitter. Jerry Narron and now Dusty Baker are handling him wrong by continuing to bat him cleanup on a nightly basis. IMO he would be better suited for either lead off where maybe he would learn to lay off more pitches and take a walk, or sixth where his solid power and low OBP would be more effective. When he's hitting cleanup it seems like he tries to hit everything out of the park, and he's just not that type of hitter.

  9. #9
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Back in Florida
    Posts
    8,143

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Phillips is owed the following:

    2009: $4,75 mm
    2010 $6,75 mm
    2011: $11 mm
    2012: $11 mm w $ 1mm buyout.

    The "near" years look reasonable, but thereafter, not so much. Since you can't take only "part" of the contract, BP is only really tradeable now. If doesn't put up a stellar 2009 or 2010...he becomes a liability.

    Walt Jocketty has had a revolving door of cheap 2B in Stlouis over the last decade. It worked.

    I say trade him. 2B is hole that's not hard to fill.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  10. #10
    All dyslexics must untie!
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    SW Portland, OR
    Posts
    8,604

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Walt Jocketty has had a revolving door of cheap 2B in Stlouis over the last decade. It worked.

    I say trade him. 2B is hole that's not hard to fill.
    Walt also values defense more than the average GM. I say BP stays
    Never overlook the obvious

  11. #11
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    7,943

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    I am definitely of the opinion that Brandon is overvalued given his counting stats. He is a good defender, but should be dealt if the Reds can get a good return. The fact that he is cheap right now should actually help them to do that. I suppose though that they'd then have to find a replacement MI with a good glove--not something there is a surplus of in the system right now.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  12. #12
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,933

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Trading Phillips is the kind of move that would infuriate the average fan, but personally I'd be all for it if the return is right. His offensive game is significantly overrated thanks to his low OBP, massive platoon split, and risky base-running. Obviously he's an asset to the team, but I think we could get even more value in return and we have significant organization depth at 2B.

    The other piece of this equation:

    08:$2.75M
    09:$4.75M
    10:$6.75M
    11:$11M
    12:$12M club option ($1M buyout)

    Plus incentives. BP is no longer "cheap". He's still a bargain for 2 years, is becoming an increasing part of the payroll base.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 09-10-2008 at 11:16 AM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #13
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,346

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Trading Phillips is the kind of move that would infuriate the average fan, but personally I'd be all for it if the return is right.

    I think there would be some fallout with the players as well. Trade Phillips, and/or Bronson and/or Cordero after both have signed long term deals and pretty soon, guys like Bruce and/or Votto and/or Volquez and/or Cueto aren't going to sign here long term because they figure if those guys got traded, so could they. It's also going to look to players outside the organization who the Reds may be looking at that they will trade anyone who signs a long term deal. That's not to say the idea of trading these guys doesn't have merit but there is a human factor to consider and if you do wind up trading these guys, those actions could have consequences.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Posts
    5,915

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    I never understood why the trading of other players with long term contracts would preclude a player from signing one?

    If someone wants to give me a long term contract.....I mean it's guaranteed money so why would i tun it down? At worst i get traded.....if you put down the teams you are willing to be traded to when you sign the contract then it would not be a big deal. I still get the money.

  15. #15
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    34,346

    Re: Bold prediction: Brandon Phillips has played his last game as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger View Post
    I never understood why the trading of other players with long term contracts would preclude a player from signing one?

    If someone wants to give me a long term contract.....I mean it's guaranteed money so why would i tun it down? At worst i get traded.....if you put down the teams you are willing to be traded to when you sign the contract then it would not be a big deal. I still get the money.
    One of the reasons you sign a long-term deal is because there's something about the place you're playing that makes you want to stay there for 3-5 years. If Team A is offering a long term deal and it's an organization that usually doesn't trade those players; if Team B is offering the same deal but they tend to trade those guys, that player is going to probably sign with Team A unless Team B really overpays. Players don't usually like to get traded. It may also affect their performance on the field if they are hearing rumors about them being traded. The player is usually giving some money back if he's signing long term. Just think of what kind of a salary Pujols could command if he had gone year to year instead of signing long term.

    I'm not saying you don't do it but that if you do, there may be repercussions.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25