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Thread: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

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    Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    This is from the ORG

    From mlb.com:
    "We had a real short bullpen today, especially with guys with experience," Baker said. "I had a bunch of 'no's' on my lineup card."

    Nearly everyone on the ORG jumped on Dusty for saying that he wanted to play guys with experience over rookies in today's game against the Brewers. I agree that at this stage of the season, he should be more focused on getting the young ones their playing time as on winning.

    But that is not the point of this thread. Here is the point:

    Dusty says all kinds of things all the time, and half the time, if not more, he doesn't really mean them, or he doesn't act on them.

    Hal McCoy has said that Dusty is the best manager the beat writers have had since Jack McKeon, in that his office is always open and is willing to talk on the record all day long. Listening to interviews of Dusty, I can see that being very true. He loves to talk.

    And people who love to talk, usually talk a lot of crap, they say things off the top of their head without thinking about it. It seems to me that Dusty says a lot of things without thinking about it.

    When he was with the Giants, IIRC, he said that black players can handle the heat better than white players. But I have not seen one single instance where he has sat down a white player in favor of a black player when it was hot outside. This was just another case of Dusty saying something dumb that he really didn't mean, or more importantly, didn't act on.

    He has made other quotes about liking to play vets over youngsters, especially in crucial situations. But this year he has played nearly every rookie as soon as they arrived at the stadium and in key situations. He put Volquez and Cueto in the starting rotation midway though spring training. He started Votto over Hatte, he played Bruce right away, he played Janish right away, including having him get the game winning hit in his first game, he put Herrera in to face the Phillies murderers row in a crucial situation, he pitched Thompson in Yankees stadium, he put Masset in right away, he started Dickerson right away and kept playing him until he got hurt, he started Ramirez right away, he put Hanigan in a platoon with Bako right away, he played Castillo right away. The only player he really didn't give a real chance was Rosales.

    I just don't see how anyone can look at the facts and conclude that Dusty doesn't play young players, even if he says that he doesn't.

    And this quote from today's game is just another example of Dusty saying something dumb that he probably didn't mean. Just in this series, he started Ramirez, and let him pitch deep into the game, he brought in Adkins in a tough situation on Tuesday night, and Adkins got the win. He also has started Castillo until he got hurt, and give Richar two pinch hit at bats. He has brought in Janish for defensive. The only recent reliever that he has not used is Herrera, (Pettyjohn is a starter) but he has already seen him pitch, and he is strictly a loogy.

    So in this series, he used every recent call up except Roselas, who he has already seen, Herrera, likewise, and Pettyjohn, who likely is being saved for a start.

    In today's game, he only brought in one reliever, so it is impossible to know what he would have done if he needed to use more. But considering he had no problem using the recent call ups in the rest of the series, I think it is likely that he would have used a rookie or two if needed, despite what he said after the game.

    We really need to stop over analyzing what Dusty says and judge him on what he does. There is enough to criticize just from that.
    Last edited by 757690; 09-11-2008 at 03:21 AM.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    I agree that Dusty has played the young guys more than what his rumored reputation said he would play them, going into the season. I mean, look at this team:

    Rookies or second year players - Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, Dickerson, Keppinger, Hanigan, Ramirez, and a bunch of utility guys.

    I wonder if this came down from the top of the organization or if Dusty just did it on his own?

    I will say that if the Reds have pretty good success next year, it will be mostly due to the youth playing and gaining experience this year.
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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Dusty's actions over the years have given me enough to conclude that he's not a good pick for manager for this organization. His words just solidify my position on him.

    That he's playing young guys now is good, but probably not entirely in his control.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    good post, I agree. You may not like what dusty says and occasionally the moves he makes but he is a proven winner and he does at least send the message to the league that the reds are serious about winning.
    The only thing he has done that bothers me is patterson. heres my theory, dusty thinks patterson still has the potential to become the superstar he was once touted to be. reds are having a bad season, no chance of competing so why not give patterson a bunch of at bats and see if something will click and he will reach that potential. If he doesnt then you just let him go after this season and you didnt lose much. Dickerson is still getting playing time, and lets be realistic hes probably nothing more than a 4th outfielder anyway. Bruce is playing everyday and stubbs isnt quite ready. If we had some superstar losing playing time because of cpat i think dusty would get rid of him but we have dont have much outfield depth so why not see if a former top prospect can reach his potential.

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    Next Year redsbuckeye's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    good post, I agree. You may not like what dusty says and occasionally the moves he makes but he is a proven winner and he does at least send the message to the league that the reds are serious about winning.
    I hate that phrase.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    reds are having a bad season, no chance of competing so why not give patterson a bunch of at bats and see if something will click and he will reach that potential. If he doesnt then you just let him go after this season and you didnt lose much.
    How many more at-bats does he need to realize Patterson is not going to click...he's now had 337 plate appearances, and has an OPS of .575... (OPS+ of 47!!!) The only player in ALL OF BASEBALL, with a lower OPS and the same or more at bats is Kenji Johjima...Only 1 player in ALL OF BASEBALL PERIOD with 150 or more plate appearances with a lower OBP is Tony Pena Jr.

    For his career, he's had 3676 plate appearances, and has an OPS of .699...he's not going to get it this year, or probably any other year.

    He's. just. not. good.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Dusty continuing to play Patterson is characteristic of any GM or manager who "wanted" someone, via trade or free agency. Jim Bowden use to do the same thing. Play his guys in hope that they would make him look good. Patterson is Dusty's guy. Doesn't look good at all on that one.

    There is nothing new to playing favorites. It's just a shame that Dusty doesn't realize what 99.9% of the rest of us know.......that Patterson stinks.
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    Schnickelfritz BurgervilleBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Truth is, Patterson dips Baker's toothpicks in a mild hallucinogen. The initial effects of this drug are enough to get him on the lineup. Each time he then strikes out or pops out, as he passes Dusty saying, "That was a good at bat, right?" And Baker will just respond "Yeah, yeah".

    This also explains that dazed look in Dusty Baker's eyes. He's not overwhelmed by the team, he's just thinking he sees a dragon playing a ukulele on Hank Aaron's head.
    That Joey Votto is some kind of Man Candy!

    "For them to boo me like that, it lets me know they dream about me at night. -- Brandon Phillips on Cards fans.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    OK, I'll buy that Dusty's not as bad as his quotes.

    But Corey Patterson is still in the line-up.

    Players like Dusty, apparently. That's good. He just needs direction from above. WJ needs to be the one who determines who plays, who pitches, and when they bat. Not in individual situations, of course, but he needs to make sure the right guys are getting the PT.
    Last edited by kpresidente; 09-11-2008 at 07:00 PM.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    at this stage of the season, he should be more focused on getting the young ones their playing time as on winning.
    Not when you're playing a team in a pennant race. You have to do your best to win those.

    Against teams that have already clinched or are already out of it? Of course.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    And people who love to talk, usually talk a lot of crap...
    Perhaps we should send Dusty to Washington....not the Nationals but rather the Congress.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    "sameness is greatness"... good one dusty. He's a pathetic excuse for a manager.

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    Re: Dusty - Do as I do, not as I say

    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Red View Post
    Not when you're playing a team in a pennant race. You have to do your best to win those.

    Against teams that have already clinched or are already out of it? Of course.
    I'm sure teams would be lineing up to complain that the Reds are playing Hannigan for Bako and if Duhhhsty would put Dickerson in CF over Patterson...

    Ya the teams were playing.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

    Patron to barmaid "I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive"



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