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View Poll Results: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

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  • Leave him at 3B

    40 57.97%
  • Move him to LF

    8 11.59%
  • Move him to 1B

    1 1.45%
  • Trade him to fill a hole

    19 27.54%
  • Other (Please explain your crazy idea)

    1 1.45%
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Thread: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

  1. #31
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    Well, that's quite a swing.
    Yeah, 64 plays is quite a difference.

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  3. #32
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    So, Beltre would provide much better defense with similar offense but at a higher price tag. Is that pretty much accurate?

  4. #33
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    I would question any metric that has Chipper Jones anywhere near the top. He is generally regarded as a poor defender at every position he has played.

    BP ran an article on Chipper earlier this year about the fact he still had a lot of work to do with the to be HOFer because he has been such a poor defender.

    The Reds need 3 or 4 OBP injections into the lineup , not 1 or 2.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  5. #34
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    I would question any metric that has Chipper Jones anywhere near the top. He is generally regarded as a poor defender at every position he has played.

    BP ran an article on Chipper earlier this year about the fact he still had a lot of work to do with the to be HOFer because he has been such a poor defender.

    The Reds need 3 or 4 OBP injections into the lineup , not 1 or 2.
    Chipper Jones has upped his Zone rating big time over the last two years. From last year to this year he is up from .640 to .695. Thats a pretty big improvement and he is also getting to more balls that aren't in his zone.

  6. #35
    Member SMcGavin's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    So, Beltre would provide much better defense with similar offense but at a higher price tag. Is that pretty much accurate?
    Yeah. The idea is that Beltre could be had for a reasonable price in talent, just to take his salary off Seattle's hands. Then you can use EE in some sort of deal to upgrade another position (or move him to LF).

  7. #36
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by SMcGavin View Post
    Yeah. The idea is that Beltre could be had for a reasonable price in talent, just to take his salary off Seattle's hands. Then you can use EE in some sort of deal to upgrade another position (or move him to LF).
    Is Seattle really that desperate or willing to move his salary? When does he become a FA?

  8. #37
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    BP ran an article on Chipper earlier this year about the fact he still had a lot of work to do with the to be HOFer because he has been such a poor defender.
    I'm shocked to hear BP wrote that. I've always viewed Chipper as a lock for the Hall of Fame. Check out his credentials: 2,277 hits, 449 doubles, 408 home runs, .310/.408/.548 - .956 OPS. One MVP award. Five All-Star appearances. 11 playoff appearances, 1 World Series championship. To me, Chipper is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  9. #38
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    So, Beltre would provide much better defense with similar offense but at a higher price tag. Is that pretty much accurate?
    Keep in mind Beltre's offensive numbers were suppressed (pretty drastically) by his ballpark while EE's were boosted by GAB. He also murders left-handers. I'd say Beltre would be a significantly better offensive player than EE in Cincy, and defensively it isn't even close.

    I'd love this acquisition. Then get a SS and another RH bat for LF and we're ready to go -- as long as Dickerson can handle CF.

  10. #39
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    Keep in mind Beltre's offensive numbers were suppressed (pretty drastically) by his ballpark while EE's were boosted by GAB. He also murders left-handers. I'd say Beltre would be a significantly better offensive player than EE in Cincy, and defensively it isn't even close.

    I'd love this acquisition. Then get a SS and another RH bat for LF and we're ready to go -- as long as Dickerson can handle CF.
    I just glanced at their OPS+ numbers, which I thought were ballpark adjusted. Beltre's was 109 and EE's was 106.

  11. #40
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    I wonder how much stock you should put into a range factor with 3b? In reality most of the balls get on you so quickly that it is more of a quick reaction than it is range. The 3b does need to be able to charge the week hit balls down the line but at the same time how often does a 3b take more than a step or two to get to a ball?

    The troubling thing with Edwin is his inability to make good throws when he fields a routine ball. I don't see much of a problem with Edwin's range, rather his accuracy on his throws. He kind of reminds me of Lopez throwing issue as a Red.

  12. #41
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    While I think he is horrible at the position MOST OF THE TIME, unless one of our big signings this offseason involves a third baseman, then move him...if that doesn't happen, leave him there and get him some intense coaching on fielding and THROWING THE AS IT PERTAINS TO THE ROUTINE PLAY.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  13. #42
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    I would keep him there, just because I would love to see him get every opportunity to get it right. If he did his value would improve dramatically. I realize people get weary of seeing the problems but it's not as if he doesn't have the necc. talent to be good there. Bye that I mean he has enough arm strength, range, hands and reaction time to do it all. If he didn't have the talent it would be an easy descision to move him. Obviously it's an acquired skill, as it is a mechanical problem for him. I realize it gets old seeing him throw balls away but people need to keep this in perspective, he's played 3 1/2 seasons of major league defense at 3B not 7,8 or 10 years. Granted he should have figured it out by now but to say definitively that he cannot do it might be a tad shortsighted. And with the way his bat may be starting to blossom and at his current pricetag he's worth the risk to wait another year. BTW Mike Schmidt was a 10 time GG and had many seasons (7) of over 20 errors. Mike though had better range and a monster offensive game but he still tossed plenty of balls away.

    That said it's in Walt's and Dusty's hands now and if they figure it's time to move on with EE at a different position I would understand it. And if they do a solid alternative (as I wrote in another thread) would be Casey Blake who wouldn't cost us any prospects and not near the money Beltre would make. And he would fit nicely as a stopgap until we can find out if Frazier or Soto can be the guy beyond '09-'10.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 09-29-2008 at 04:44 PM.
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  14. #43
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    defensive stats are good for giving a general idea and that is about it. EE is not a good 3rd baseman. Most stats and my eyes tell me that Scott Rolen and Ryan Zimmerman top the list after that.

    An aging Beltre should be expected to provide average defense. Might he be better? Sure but I wouldn't count on it.

    I am sure we all remember the wonderful anecdotal evidence on the gold glove play of ALex Gonzalez when he signed with the Reds ... however, what he provided was far from that.

    In the end this team has serious offensive and defensive issues to overcome to get anywhere near being a playoff team. I would expect that Jocketty better be targeting players that can provide help in both areas.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  15. #44
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Flyer mentions the "aging" Beltre which brings up an interesting question, at least for me. Beltre turns 30 right around opening day 2009. Is he at an age where we should expect his defense to start declining? If so, how much?

  16. #45
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: What would YOU do with EE over the offseason?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    defensive stats are good for giving a general idea and that is about it. EE is not a good 3rd baseman. Most stats and my eyes tell me that Scott Rolen and Ryan Zimmerman top the list after that.

    An aging Beltre should be expected to provide average defense. Might he be better? Sure but I wouldn't count on it.

    I am sure we all remember the wonderful anecdotal evidence on the gold glove play of ALex Gonzalez when he signed with the Reds ... however, what he provided was far from that.

    In the end this team has serious offensive and defensive issues to overcome to get anywhere near being a playoff team. I would expect that Jocketty better be targeting players that can provide help in both areas.
    So you are completely against acquiring Beltre, even though he only has one year under contract left at $12M? I expect he could be had for very little talent, and would not cripple Walt's budget past 2009 when many Reds start getting raises. I see him as a good option (along with LaRoche) as a one year stopgap at 3B since there isn't anybody better to spend the money on...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."


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