Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 59

Thread: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    12,362

    Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    You have to wonder if Uncle Walt plans to make the same splash with acquiring Matt Holliday as he did at the July 31 trading deadline back in 1997 when he acquired Mark McGwire for T.J. Mathews, Eric Ludwick and B. Stein? And even though McGwire would have been a free agent at the end of the season, Jockerty was able to sign him to a contract extension that September.

    When the Cardinals acquired McGwire, that is when their fortunes turned around. Now fastforward to the present and substitute the Reds for the Cardinals and Holliday for McGwire. Think history can repeat itself?

    The Rockies are looking for young pitching. Obviously they would ask for either Volquez or Cueto. But with no guarantee that that Holliday would sign a contract extension, what team would risk giving a pitcher of that caliber? Very few unless the Yankees are serious about trading Phillip Hughes, which they even refused to do in the Santana trade talks with Minnesota last year. And with Mussina and Pettite most likely to retire, the Yankees will be looking hard for pitching.

    Think Uncle Walt can put together a deal like Homer Bailey, Josh Roenicke and Juan Francisco for Holliday, and sign him to a contract extension? Would Holliday have the same magnitude for the Reds as McGwire did with the Cardinals. Or would the Reds be making a serious mistake putting all that payroll into one player? If the Reds are close like several have said, does acquiring Holliday put them over the top, and replace the lost production with the departures of Griffey and Dunn?
    Last edited by Krusty; 10-11-2008 at 07:11 AM.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,126

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    If he can pull off a deal at the price he got when with St. Louis, but you're talking about giving up considerably more than the Cards did. The players the A's received proved to be fairly pedestrian. I understand the trade market viz young prospects has changed dramatically in the last several years (part of Krivsky's ultimate downfall, I think), I wouldn't want to give up so much.

    I think you're right, given today's trade market, that we'd have to pay such a price, and I'm hesitant to go there (and it may be that you've describe the Cardinal trio as it is).
    ďIn the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either.Ē - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

    The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com

    The Baseball Bookstore

    http://tsc-sales.com/
    http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
    http://silverscreenbooks.com/

  4. #3
    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Bristol, just around the corner from ESPN
    Posts
    8,694

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    While a deal resembling the one that brought McGwire to the Cards if it happens for the Reds would be a step in the right direction, Holliday is the wrong target, IMO.

  5. #4
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,087

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Doubt it happens like that, because Holliday is set on testing free agency. I also doubt Bailey is included because they apparently don't want him and if he pitches well enough to change their minds I doubt we want to get rid of him.

  6. #5
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Commonwealth
    Posts
    8,350

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Weren't the three guys he gave up for Mac akin to giving up Cueto, Roenicke, and Stubbs now? IE a couple solid AAA guys and a young 'stud' pitcher? I know they didn't pan out that way, but wasn't it the line of thought back then?

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
    University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12
    Cincinnati Bengals - None
    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, aka, the most prosperous city in the world.
    Posts
    10,558

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph View Post
    Weren't the three guys he gave up for Mac akin to giving up Cueto, Roenicke, and Stubbs now? IE a couple solid AAA guys and a young 'stud' pitcher? I know they didn't pan out that way, but wasn't it the line of thought back then?

    No, none of them, at the time, projected to be a Cueto.

    Remember, Cueto has already pitched a full season in the majors as a regular starting pitcher.

    And why are we starting a new thread on exactly the same thing we have going on the previous one?

  8. #7
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,581

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    I don't think we should expect history to repeat itself unless Matt Holiday hits 74 home runs in a season, cleanly.

  9. #8
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    7,941

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    I don't think we should expect history to repeat itself unless Matt Holiday hits 74 home runs in a season, cleanly.
    But then history wouldn't be repeating itself...
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #9
    Haunted by walks
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Syracuse
    Posts
    6,581

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    But then history wouldn't be repeating itself...
    I knew someone would say that, but I meant in terms of Holliday being the Reds' McGwire.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,782

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    I would do that deal in a second but I think the Rox want more. If like doug said, they have no interest in Bailey, I would see if they had interest in Arroyo.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #11
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,918

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    The difference is that McGwire was acquired on the cheap. The package that landed him was Eric Ludwick, T.J. Mathews, and Blake Stein. None of those were top prospects. The Rockies want a lot more value than that.

    Furthermore, Boras is Holliday's agent. There is no way in the world Holliday doesn't test free agency. If you've followed the Manny saga closely, let's just say it wasn't Manny's idea to force his way out of Boston.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    12,362

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    True but the Reds should have an idea of what kind of contract to expect from Holliday given what Manny Ramirez receives in free agency. That will tell alot how much interest the Reds supposedly have in Holliday, if any.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  14. #13
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    True but the Reds should have an idea of what kind of contract to expect from Holliday given what Manny Ramirez receives in free agency. That will tell alot how much interest the Reds supposedly have in Holliday, if any.
    How much is Teixeira going to cost?
    How much would Holliday cost?
    If the Reds can sign Teixeira why sign or why try to trade for a one year of Holliday?
    If the Reds canít afford Teixeira and canít sign him, how could the Reds afford or sign Holliday?

    Code:
    Mark Teixeira Age 28 2008 $12,500,000 	        Matt Holliday Age 28  2008: $9,500,000
    Career .290 .378 .541 .919 			Career .319 .386 .552 .938
    
    3Yr Splits					3Yr Splits
    Total .298 .393 .541 .934			Total .329 .400 .579 .979
    
    vs. Left .319 .411 .544 .955 			vs. Left .306 .398 .547 .945 			
    vs. Right .289 .385 .540 .925			vs. Right .335 .401 .588 .989
    
    Runners On .302 .417 .542 .959 		        Runners On .318 .395 .534 .929 
    Scoring Position .331 .463 .579 1.042	        Scoring Position .302 .395 .483 .878

  15. #14
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,632

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring~Fields View Post
    If the Reds can sign Teixeira why sign or why try to trade for a one year of Holliday?
    Because the Reds already have a first baseman....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  16. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    12,362

    Re: Matt Holliday = Mark McGwire Deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Because the Reds already have a first baseman....
    I think the Reds improve themselves defensively by signing Texieria to play lst base and shift Votto to LF. But is the switch hitting Texieria (who bats better lefthanded than right) the answer to the Reds need for a righthanded hitter?
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25