Who is Redszone's #5 prospect?

[REDblooded]

I could make a solid argument for 5 players right here, but on upside at a premium position, I'll take Lotzkar.

[Mario-Rijo]

Again I would love to take Lotzkar here, if healthy he arguably could have been top 3. I know he doesn't see his arm injury as anything too big, more or less a fluke too him, but what else should he think? I saw Tom Browning's arm snap and at that very moment his career was over. Chris Reitsma's arm has broke twice and he is still hanging around but as a reliever, not that he was ever considered anything else but could he have started if he had been a starter? I say that break makes me very nervous for his future, that doesn't mean I have changed my appreciation for his talent but it's a chink in the armor for me.

Also I will say seeing a recent quote by Callis or one of those guys (OBM I think you posted it) about Valaika and his so-so overall package did concern me a bit and if it weren't for Dickerson's age I would have changed my thought process. I also would have re-considered my previous vote knowing this info. But I still see Valaika as the best of this bunch that's up for nomination, because his bat will play solid in MLB and he's not far away. I think he plays most of the season in AAA with an almost definite call up in September and a legit guy to make the team out of S/T in '10.

Again guys who could be the top 5 and why I didn't vote for them.

Thompson - Concerns about arm, but love everything else about sans maybe some small command issues that could have just been nerves (throwing his fastball up in the zone alot).

Lotzkar - Arm concerns and distance from MLB (and he still has to go through the injury nexus).

Dickerson - Just his age and the fact that although he looks great he still has to prove he can make an adjustment once the opposition figures him out. Normally that's the case for everyone but I had concerns about him going in so we'll see how that plays out.

Roenicke - Has a good ways to go with control/command IMO and we have seen many struggle to ever find "it".

[*BaseClogger*]

Outside of a 2 month stretch in Sarasota in 2007, the guy has tore up the ball in the minor leagues.

A career 824 OPS? If he was a good fielder he would be a B+ prospect, but when I hear he is only adequate defensively, and doesn't really have one great skill otherwise, I can't say he is much more than a B- prospect...

[Mario-Rijo]

A career 824 OPS? If he was a good fielder he would be a B+ prospect, but when I hear he is only adequate defensively, and doesn't really have one great skill otherwise, I can't say he is much more than a B- prospect...

Well he does have one great skill, he can hit. That said he has dropped a smidge for me with this recent news.

[*BaseClogger*]

Well he does have one great skill, he can hit. That said he has dropped a smidge for me with this recent news.

Specifically, what does he do well hitting?

[AmarilloRed]

I have to go with Ramon Ramirez. His ERA and WHIP improved at every level between AA and MLB this year.

AA:1.22 WHIP, 4.70 ERA
AAA: 1.19 WHIP, 3.08 ERA
MLB: 1.037 WHIP, 2.67 ERA

His future may only be as a back of the rotation starter or long reliever, but I believe he will be a major league starting pitcher. He gets my vote.

[Mario-Rijo]

Specifically, what does he do well hitting?

Well let me put it like this. He's a rich man's Jeff Keppinger at the plate with a better swing and more pop. He's likely a doubles machine at the pro level with 15-20 Hr's. If his discipline continues to improve (and I truly believe it will) I see him as a .300/.350+/.450 type because his power hasn't even kicked in yet he's still only 22. From 2B that's pretty darn good and even better from SS but I don't see that. His range at SS is an issue mostly due to his arm not being stellar but just solid. If he works hard at learning where to be position wise once he hits MLB he'll be a more than adequate 2B.

[Mario-Rijo]

Well let me put it like this. He's a rich man's Jeff Keppinger at the plate with a better swing and more pop. He's likely a doubles machine at the pro level with 15-20 Hr's. If his discipline continues to improve (and I truly believe it will) I see him as a .300/.350+/.450 type because his power hasn't even kicked in yet he's still only 22. From 2B that's pretty darn good and even better from SS but I don't see that. His range at SS is an issue mostly due to his arm not being stellar but just solid. If he works hard at learning where to be position wise once he hits MLB he'll be a more than adequate 2B.

Or if you prefer he's an excellent contact hitter who won't be relying solely on singles.

[OnBaseMachine]

Should Ryan Hanigan be included on these polls sometime down the road when we reach the 15-20 range? He hasn't lost his ROY eligibility yet (cut off is 130 atbats, he's got 95) but he's 28 years old. It's up to you guys. At his age, do you still consider him a prospect?

[AmarilloRed]

Should Ryan Hanigan be included on these polls sometime down the road when we reach the 15-20 range? He hasn't lost his ROY eligibility yet (cut off is 130 atbats, he's got 95) but he's 28 years old. It's up to you guys. At his age, do you still consider him a prospect?

I still consider him a prospect. I think if you are still eligible for ROY, you should be considered a prospect. Some players take longer than others to reach the major leagues.

[Mario-Rijo]

I still consider him a prospect. I think if you are still eligible for ROY, you should be considered a prospect. Some players take longer than others to reach the major leagues.

True Soto won ROY at what 67? So yeah I think we should include him.

[dougdirt]

A career 824 OPS? If he was a good fielder he would be a B+ prospect, but when I hear he is only adequate defensively, and doesn't really have one great skill otherwise, I can't say he is much more than a B- prospect...

Give me that from a 2B anytime. Valaika might be out of position at SS some, but he can handle 2B just fine and he can hit plenty well for a 2B.

[Screwball]

Should Ryan Hanigan be included on these polls sometime down the road when we reach the 15-20 range? He hasn't lost his ROY eligibility yet (cut off is 130 atbats, he's got 95) but he's 28 years old. It's up to you guys. At his age, do you still consider him a prospect?

Absolutely. Not that I'll vote for him any time soon, but I think you should widen the horizons (so to speak) to include as many prospects as possible.

Also, this is a personal addendum, but maybe slow down the voting a bit? I mean, we have A LOT of offseason ahead of us. Let's let this prospect voting help to pass the time, but not necessarily right now. (JMHO, of course)

Oh, and BTW, Lotzkar is the obvious choice, IMO.

[mth123]

Give me that from a 2B anytime. Valaika might be out of position at SS some, but he can handle 2B just fine and he can hit plenty well for a 2B.

I don't see Valaika as a guy who projects as well as other do. I think he'll be be a .725 to .775 OPS guy most of his career with a possible season or two where he tops .800 (probably with some BABIP help). Now that element of his game sounds fine "for a second basemen," but that really isn't the way that the standard should be applied. When the "for an up the middle player" qualifier is attached to a guy's offense, its usually a way of saying its ok to put his plus glove in the line-up (see Drew Stubbs, Chris Dickerson, Chris Heisey, Ryan Hanigan and Zach Cozart for an example of how to apply that standard). But if the guy's glove is a question mark, his offense needs to be the "plays anywhere" variety to be a top 10 guy (See Todd Frazier and Neftali Soto for examples of this).

If its questionable that the guy's glove will play up the middle, and his offense isn't good enough to qualify him at a corner, that sounds like a tweener to me who may be best projected as a supersub type. And, while I think Valaika may end up being a pretty good supersub, I can't project a tweener like that a lot higher on the list than I would guys who project as regular players, plus bats, near ready starters or back of the bullpen assets. I have Vailaika at number 16 and probably have him lower than just about anyone else does, but if his defense is in question and his offense being good enough depends on his defense being good enough then that sounds like a guy who is just a little short all around to me. Many are calling Valaika Jeff Kent, but I see Jeff Keppinger or maybe Ronnie Belliard (but Belliard is a better defender). I'm hoping for Mark Derosa, but again, DeRosa is a good defender at a number of spots.

[icehole3]

I was absolutely torn between Ramirez and Lotzkar and I let OBM talk me into Lotzkar, those numbers are very very impressive. Ramirez moves to number 6 for me.