Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 51

Thread: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    12,359

    The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    So I ask fellow Reds fans, would a deal involving Homer Bailey and say Josh Roenicke for Magglio Ordonez work for both teams? The following was taken from Buster Olney's blog:

    Thoughts about teams not playing in Fall Classic

    Wednesday, October 22, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

    There are two teams in the World Series, and 28 teams already preparing for 2009. Some pieces from the rest of the baseball landscape:


    • The Detroit Tigers will have the tricky task of trying to improve their team at the same time that they are shaving payroll, and at the same time that other teams don't see a lot of value in the Tigers' farm system other than young pitcher Rick Porcello (who the Tigers won't trade).

    The Tigers could theoretically dangle Magglio Ordonez in trade talks in an effort to get pitching, coming off a year in which Ordonez batted .321 with 21 homers and 103 RBIs. But Ordonez is due to make $18 million next year, and he will turn 35 in January at a time when the industry has become extraordinarily skeptical about the ability of players to consistently produce into their late 30s.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    7,914

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Detroit would have to send a lot of cash with Mags
    Most Vottomatic Player

  4. #3
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,697

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    So I ask fellow Reds fans, would a deal involving Homer Bailey and say Josh Roenicke for Magglio Ordonez work for both teams? The following was taken from Buster Olney's blog:

    Thoughts about teams not playing in Fall Classic

    Wednesday, October 22, 2008 | Feedback | Print Entry

    There are two teams in the World Series, and 28 teams already preparing for 2009. Some pieces from the rest of the baseball landscape:


    • The Detroit Tigers will have the tricky task of trying to improve their team at the same time that they are shaving payroll, and at the same time that other teams don't see a lot of value in the Tigers' farm system other than young pitcher Rick Porcello (who the Tigers won't trade).

    The Tigers could theoretically dangle Magglio Ordonez in trade talks in an effort to get pitching, coming off a year in which Ordonez batted .321 with 21 homers and 103 RBIs. But Ordonez is due to make $18 million next year, and he will turn 35 in January at a time when the industry has become extraordinarily skeptical about the ability of players to consistently produce into their late 30s.
    The Tigers would need to take some money back. Adding Freel would help a little but not enough. This deal isn't awful on its surface, but would take away two of the Reds biggest trading chips and not address any of its top 3 areas of need (while leaving little payroll available to help elsewhere). Maybe if the Tigers threw in James Skelton to help address the catching situation it would go down better, but I'd be against it unless the Tigers paid a lot of Mags' salary or the Reds got him for cast-offs like Majewski and Freel.
    Last edited by mth123; 10-25-2008 at 04:54 PM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #4
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    I thought that the Tigers wanted a closer?

    How about Cordero and Dickerson for Magglio Ordonez and Granderson?
    Toss in Freel and Gonzalez.

    I don't think that the Reds can afford to take on large salaries and keep the higher priced pitching that they have for 2009 under their skimpy budgets and revenues.

  6. #5
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,565

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Maggs was roughly a 3 win player last season when looking at the value of his bat and defense (which is -5 to -10 runs at this point). If the market rate is $4.5 to 5M per win, he was paid about exactly what the market says he should've been.

    In '08 he gets a raise (and a year older). As it stands, he's not likely to be a 4+ win player next season (his '09 contract plus his '10 buyout dictates a 4 win value). Then there is a real possibility that the market will finally start correcting.

    So in essence, Mags isn't likely to provide value if the Tigers simply gave his remaining contract to the Reds. The calculus absolutely doesn't work for the Reds IMHO if they have to send useful bodies back Detroit's way too.

    Now is absolutely the time for Detroit to be selling Mags which means it's not the time to be buying him unless he's integral to those final 3 to 5 wins needed to get into the post season.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #6
    Member Spring~Fields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    8,630

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Maggs was roughly a 3 win player last season when looking at the value of his bat and defense (which is -5 to -10 runs at this point). If the market rate is $4.5 to 5M per win, he was paid about exactly what the market says he should've been.

    In '08 he gets a raise (and a year older). As it stands, he's not likely to be a 4+ win player next season (his '09 contract plus his '10 buyout dictates a 4 win value). Then there is a real possibility that the market will finally start correcting.

    So in essence, Mags isn't likely to provide value if the Tigers simply gave his remaining contract to the Reds. The calculus absolutely doesn't work for the Reds IMHO if they have to send useful bodies back Detroit's way too.

    Now is absolutely the time for Detroit to be selling Mags which means it's not the time to be buying him unless he's integral to those final 3 to 5 wins needed to get into the post season.
    What kind of example would have to be done to make it right for both Detroit and Cincinnati? I guess only the two GM's would know for sure, but I thought I would ask. I suppose there is no wrong answer if we stayed conservative, would there be?

  8. #7
    Member jesusfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Grayson, Ky
    Posts
    6,130

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Add Freel and his salary and I'd do it in a heartbeat... Dickerson-Phillips-Bruce-Mags-Votto-Edwin-Gonzo/Kepp-Catcher wouldn't be too shabby with our pitching staff...
    "There is a great man who makes every man feel small. But the real great man is the man who makes every man feel great." G.K Charleston

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    985

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Sign me up for Magglio Ordonez.

    He immediately makes an impact on this lineup and you can get him without dealing a huge chunk of your future.

  10. #9
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Crescent Springs KY
    Posts
    3,589

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Lets say we trade Freel & Gonzo & some 'prospects' (not anyone really good) for Ordonez. We dump $9.85M in bad contracts & take on $48M over 3 years.
    So his contract becomes ~$13M a year. Would you sign him if he was a non type A free agent for 3 years $39M ? Borderline call IMO.
    He has been good but lots of guys fall off a cliff at around age 35.
    .

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Williamsport, PA
    Posts
    12,359

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    If you're going to take his full salary, then I would offer Freel, Roenicke and another B type prospect. Now if they are willing to pick up a portion of Ordonez's contract, then you could talk the likes of Bailey.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  12. #11
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Charlotte, Nc
    Posts
    15,088

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    I guess I don't understand why the Reds would trade Dunn if they were going to turn around and trade for someone older and more expensive, with similar offensive numbers.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #12
    Member Jpup's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southern KY
    Posts
    6,967

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I guess I don't understand why the Reds would trade Dunn if they were going to turn around and trade for someone older and more expensive, with similar offensive numbers.
    Micah Owings can hit?
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  14. #13
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    POSITIVE
    .899 career OPS
    .870 OPS in 2008 (granted, it's a dropoff, but it's not far from his career norm)
    "veteran presence"
    has much better numbers with runners on base
    his hair
    puts the ball in play
    his productive numbers have come while playing in a pitcher's park
    reportedly doesn't like Ozzie Guillen
    World Series experience
    will soon each 300 homerun plateau

    NEGATIVE
    35 years old next year
    expensive (practically speaking, he'll make $21M in 2009 with a $12M club option for 2010)
    would have to be acquired through trade
    his hair
    coming off a down year (albeit not much of one)
    poor defense
    very double play-prone
    has never hit more than 32 homeruns in a season
    covering five years, is six of his last 18 in stolen base attempts
    has had knee and hernia surgeries

    Basically, the Reds are looking for a replacement for Dunn, and as far as I'm concerned, Ordonez would be a very slight improvement. For me, the questions are "Is he healthy?", "How rapidly will his performance decline?" and "What would it take to acquire him?" If I like the answers to those questions, then I'd really like to see him in a Reds uniform. But before I explore those options, I'd prefer to look at the free agent market because a guy like Juan Rivera might be able to surprise people with similar numbers at a significantly smaller price.

    Anyway, here's a comparison of Dunn and Ordonez over their careers:
    Code:
    Dunn
    	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
    RISP	.225	.416	.474	.890
    Empty	.250	.359	.529	.886
    Total	.247	.381	.518	.900
    
    Ordonez
    	BA	OBP	SLG	OPS
    RISP	.332	.409	.531	.940
    Empty	.301	.352	.509	.860
    Total	.312	.371	.520	.899

  15. #14
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,431

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I guess I don't understand why the Reds would trade Dunn if they were going to turn around and trade for someone older and more expensive, with similar offensive numbers.
    It's probably related to the length of the contract that Dunn is expecting. Ordonez has only $21M guaranteed through 2009 (and after that is two club options).

  16. #15
    Member blumj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern MA
    Posts
    4,597

    Re: The Price For Magglio Ordonez?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I guess I don't understand why the Reds would trade Dunn if they were going to turn around and trade for someone older and more expensive, with similar offensive numbers.
    There's nothing preventing them from signing Dunn now if the price is right, and they still get to keep the players they got in the trade for him. He may get a better offer or he might just not want to come back, but I doubt it would be because they traded him to a contender when his contract was almost up.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25