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Thread: Dunn was just a rental

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  1. #1
    Crosley Field Fan
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    Dunn was just a rental

    this from The Arizona Republic

    http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diam...pt-dbacks.html

    Two of the Diamondbacks' highest-profile free agents, second baseman Orlando Hudson and slugger Adam Dunn, have not yet filed, but the club doesn't seem to be holding out much hope of retaining either.

    Dunn, acquired in an Aug. 11 deal with Cincinnati, was never expected to be more than a rental.

    "Adam will have a healthy market," said Moorad, who also represented Dunn. "We were pleased to have him for the last month and a half. I don't believe he fits for us going forward."

    I wouldnt mind grabbing Hudson and moving Phillips to SS, that defense would work for me.

    icehole3
    ================================================== =
    "Adam will have a healthy market," said Moorad, who also represented Dunn. "We were pleased to have him for the last month and a half. I don't believe he fits for us going forward."

    This quote doesn't make sense... Mooran 'represents' Dunn but then he speaks from the point of view of Dbacks management? That's gotta be two different people making those quotes, or something... something is off.

    willy mo rocks
    ================================================== ==

    I can't respond in the ORG so I will here...Jeff Moorad is not an agent anymore he is CEO of the Diamondbacks...

    said Diamondbacks CEO Jeff Moorad, a former agent who represented Hudson before becoming a part-owner.

    http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diam...pt-dbacks.html

  2. #2
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    i wouldn't mind hudson either. figure he'll be a little pricey though.
    "Six outs to a full inning. In a major league game, you're going to play 8 or 9 innings. That is never going to change. The money changes. People change. But the game itself is never going to change. The people who designed this thing are brilliant."-Jamie Moyer

  3. #3
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    I still miss Dunn. I really do.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
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  4. #4
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    I really enjoy the part when Moorad says Dunn, doesn't fit for us going forward...Amazing, a team with very little outfield depth and most of the guys they do have are offensively challenged, says that Adam Dunn doesn't fit in their plan. Their plan must be to lose

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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    Well, they certainly didn't go anywhere with him. I can't say I blame them.
    Who's on first?

  6. #6
    Member Emin3mShady07's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    Quote Originally Posted by ChatterRed View Post
    Well, they certainly didn't go anywhere with him. I can't say I blame them.
    Dunn certainly made the Dbacks a better team, so its not his fault that Arizona lost. He had an OPS+ of 127 with Arizona along with a .417 OBP. That is pretty darn good, certainly an upgrade over Eric Byrnes and Chad Tracy.
    Baseball is not necessarily an obsessive-compulsive disorder, like washing your hands 100 times a day, but it's beginning to seem that way. We're reaching the point where you can be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick. ~Thomas Boswell

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  7. #7
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    I cant wait to see what kind of contract Dunn signs to see what his real worth is.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  8. #8
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    I cant wait to see what kind of contract Dunn signs to see what his real worth is.
    Kind of gives you an idea of what the Diamondbacks thought of the players they sent us.

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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    I felt the D'Backs were hoping Dunn would come in with one of his famous (Or infamous?) Hot Streaks and put them over the top. Didn't work out. His obp etc. can be cited as "good", but that isn't what they wanted from him. They wanted monster HR's to be contagious to rest of the team offense-wise. I think the Reds did Okay with what they got for him, especially if Owings makes the 5th Starter. I wonder who will pay what for Dunn....

  10. #10
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    Quote Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07 View Post
    I really enjoy the part when Moorad says Dunn, doesn't fit for us going forward...Amazing, a team with very little outfield depth and most of the guys they do have are offensively challenged, says that Adam Dunn doesn't fit in their plan. Their plan must be to lose
    Quote Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07 View Post
    Dunn certainly made the Dbacks a better team, so its not his fault that Arizona lost. He had an OPS+ of 127 with Arizona along with a .417 OBP. That is pretty darn good, certainly an upgrade over Eric Byrnes and Chad Tracy.
    there's three reasons why i can understand why they wouldn't want dunn back:

    1) mark reynolds was 1st, chris young 6th and adam dunn 7th in k's in all of mlb and as a team the only offense that had more k's was floridas which also didn't make the playoffs.

    2)arizona also tied for the 5th most errors in all of mlb. the teams with more errors didn't make the playoffs either.

    dunn was only there 2 months so if they had him back for a full season it definitely wouldn't help those team rankings. ya can't say that stuff doesn't matter when it adds up THAT much. tracy hasn't played the outfield in a few years but...

    3) "a team with very little outfield depth and most of the guys they do have are offensively challenged"?? i beg to differ. they don't need dunn. connor jackson played half of '08 in the outfield and they'll have byrnes, cy, and super stud justin upton back. i like jay bruce but he's only one player. maybe someday our outfield can rival theirs but at this moment i'd take that outfield (and their ss too). collectively you have a decent ba, power, speed, not too many k's, and better than average defense. also jackson and cy can still improve and upton could rival bruce as the best NL outfielders over the next 5 years.

    in left jackson had only 3 errors in 77 games and he has k'd only 12.8% of the time in 1525 mlb abs). byrnes is also better (only 20 errors in 820 mlb games, 17% k's in 2931 mlb abs). dunn has 75 errors in 1099 games and has k'd 32.4% of his 3871 career mlb abs. so they'll have less power in '09 but less k's and better defense too.

    there are alot of stats (like obp and ops) that are valuable but imo it's also kinda important for a player to have skills that complement the rest of the team and for there to be a need for the player. neither is the case with dunn and arizona.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  11. #11
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    there's three reasons why i can understand why they wouldn't want dunn back:

    1) mark reynolds was 1st, chris young 6th and adam dunn 7th in k's in all of mlb and as a team the only offense that had more k's was floridas which also didn't make the playoffs.

    2)arizona also tied for the 5th most errors in all of mlb. the teams with more errors didn't make the playoffs either.

    dunn was only there 2 months so if they had him back for a full season it definitely wouldn't help those team rankings. ya can't say that stuff doesn't matter when it adds up THAT much. tracy hasn't played the outfield in a few years but...

    3) "a team with very little outfield depth and most of the guys they do have are offensively challenged"?? i beg to differ. they don't need dunn. connor jackson played half of '08 in the outfield and they'll have byrnes, cy, and super stud justin upton back. i like jay bruce but he's only one player. maybe someday our outfield can rival theirs but at this moment i'd take that outfield (and their ss too). collectively you have a decent ba, power, speed, not too many k's, and better than average defense. also jackson and cy can still improve and upton could rival bruce as the best NL outfielders over the next 5 years.

    in left jackson had only 3 errors in 77 games and he has k'd only 12.8% of the time in 1525 mlb abs). byrnes is also better (only 20 errors in 820 mlb games, 17% k's in 2931 mlb abs). dunn has 75 errors in 1099 games and has k'd 32.4% of his 3871 career mlb abs. so they'll have less power in '09 but less k's and better defense too.

    there are alot of stats (like obp and ops) that are valuable but imo it's also kinda important for a player to have skills that complement the rest of the team and for there to be a need for the player. neither is the case with dunn and arizona.
    1. According to Baseball Between the Numbers, there is no significant evidence that suggests a player who strikes out a lot more than another who has the exact same stats, minus Ks, creates less runs by not making contact. If a hitter strikes out, he cannot hit into a double play and over the course of a season, those double plays wil even out the effects of "productive" outs.

    2. Errors are not a good way to evaluate the defensive skill level of a team. Granted, the 7 teams that made the most errors did not make the playoffs, but neither did the 6 teams who made the least errors. Minnesota was no. 7 and they missed the playoffs because they lost a one game playoff to Chicago (who had the 8th most errors). The six teams in front of minnesota all had other issues more salient then errors. No. 1 Texas had the worst ERA in the majors. No. 2 Washington was just a bad team all around, 24th in ERA and 29th in OPS. No. 3 Florida was 13th in the MLB in OPS and 19th in ERA, which would imply that they are a middle of the road team, which is exactly what they were. Had Florida played in the NL West, they actually would have tied with LAD for the best record in the west, actually, Florida had one game left to play and if they won that game, their record would have been better. No. 4 was Cincinnati who was 23rd in both ERA and OPS, which is certainly not going to get you in the playoffs. 6th was Detroit who was 27th in ERA which was their biggest issue. AZ was 5th, but they had the 19th best OPS in the majors, and they only scored 720 which is a low total. They were 7th in ERA, but they just didn't score enough runs and that is why they missed the playoffs, not because of how many errors they made. And anyways, back to my original point errors don't accurately measure defensive skill. Rafael Furcal is around the top of the list in errors every year, but he is still one of the best SS in the Major Leagues. Conor Jackson had an RZR of .929 in LF this year while Adam Dunn overall around .903 or so. The difference in those two is much less than the difference in runs created by each's offense.

    3. Eric Byrnes has a career .325 and an OPS+ of 97. Chris Young has a career OPS+ of 89. Jackson has a career OPS+ of 105. Upton had a 107 this past season and there is certainly room to grow for him. Dunn's career OPS+ is 130, much better than everyone above. Dunn's offense is more valuable than Young's defense and Jackson's defense, and probably Byrnes's defense as long as he doesn't have one of those years where he randomly plays really good defense ('07 and '04). Upton is too young to get a good enough picture of. So while Dunn's skills don't complement AZ, he is still more beneficial to winning than all of these players, except potentially Upton, but he still needs to prove that.

    Stats Courtesy of MLB.com, baseball-reference.com, thehardballtimes.com and baseballprospectus.com
    Baseball is not necessarily an obsessive-compulsive disorder, like washing your hands 100 times a day, but it's beginning to seem that way. We're reaching the point where you can be a truly dedicated, state-of-the-art fan or you can have a life. Take your pick. ~Thomas Boswell

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  12. #12
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    1) well Emin3mShady07 i wasn't talking about individual player comparisons as much as the effect of strike outs on a teams offense as a whole. i don't have a problem with one or two players that stike out a little more. i just think there should be a balance on a team between players that tend to strike out more and contact hitters. that's all.

    2) i agree that errors don't capture the entire picture of a players defense. my point was that dunns defense was worse than any of the arizona outfielders and it sounds like we both can agree that he doesn't bring much to the table defensively.

    3) i didn't say i'd take byrnes or jackson over dunn cuz i wouldn't either. my point of my entire post was that i could understand why arizona would feel that they didn't NEED dunn back. that's what this thread was about. the decision to not bring him back. NOT whether he's better or worse overall than who'd they have. and you still haven't said why they should've brought him back except to say that he has been better than bynes and jackson.

    it isn't that simple. byrnes is under contract for two more years. jackson doesn't have a shot at free agency for another three years. i wouldn't cut either one and trades depend on finding a trading partner that has compatible needs/assets to deal. while they're not as good as dunn they'e still pretty good in my book and cheaper combined than dunn as well.

    one last point. arizona will still receive those two draft picks. so by not bringing him back they receive two draft picks, save a few million, and still have two pretty good players to play left field. while dunn is better he doesn't complement what they have now and they just don't have a need for someone that's pretty much a left fielder/dh.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  13. #13
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    Adam Dunn is connected to the Nationals in speculation by the Sporting News Today daily online newsletter. Page 37

    http://today.sportingnews.com/sporti...EoUS&folio=CGI

    There is also a write up on available FA Catchers. Page 36

    By the way...If you sign up on the Sporting News web site they will send you an email with the link to each days online newsletter. Recommended !

  14. #14
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    yeah kpresidente started a thread about a possible bowden/dunn reunion.
    btw, i noticed on the TSN site that piniella said he doesn't anticipate the cubs getting into any big spending spree. that could be good news for us.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  15. #15
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Dunn was just a rental

    the dbacks have just fired 31 front office employees mostly in broadcasting. they cited "rising expenses and a sluggish economy". with that kind of news it's not that surprising that they let dunn go and may be an example that shows that the economy could have an effect on how much teams spend this offseason.


    http://www.azcentral.com/sports/diam...pt-dbacks.html
    Last edited by redsfandan; 11-09-2008 at 06:48 PM.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."


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