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View Poll Results: Prospect #8 runoff vote

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  • Chris Dickerson

    25 28.74%
  • Juan Duran

    30 34.48%
  • Juan Francisco

    32 36.78%
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Thread: Prospect #8 runoff vote

  1. #31
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    They differ from Dickerson because Dickerson projects as a plus defender in CF and his bat should be plenty for his position. Dickerson could be an everyday player (or at least a most of the time player based on him being the LH side of a platoon). I don't see any of the players you mentioned holding any position on a regular basis on the major league level.
    See, that's the thing. Richar has the exact same career minor-league OPS as Dickerson at a weaker offensive position. He's rangy in the field, although he makes a lot of errors. I don't see how one's a top-10 prospect and the other's not even on the list.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    See, that's the thing. Richar has the exact same career minor-league OPS as Dickerson at a weaker offensive position. He's rangy in the field, although he makes a lot of errors. I don't see how one's a top-10 prospect and the other's not even on the list.
    Richar has 223 career major league atbats, therefore he's lost his rookie and prospect eligibility.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #33
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    See, that's the thing. Richar has the exact same career minor-league OPS as Dickerson at a weaker offensive position. He's rangy in the field, although he makes a lot of errors. I don't see how one's a top-10 prospect and the other's not even on the list.
    Dickerson improved as he progressed and got his game together. He is coming off of a very good 2008 and is a player on the upswing. Dickerson also has better plate discipline and more raw power. Richar had a poor 2008 and lost some steam, but I see your point about his numbers overall. It concerns me that his On Base skills are more batting average driven and more prone to fluctuation. Of course, if a guy can hit it doesn't matter.

    Perhaps I give 2008 too much weight. I'd be thrilled to be wrong, because I do think that Richar has the defensive ability for 2B and shares the LH platoon advantage that contributes to Dickerson's package. I'd be real happy if Richar bounces back and proves you right and me wrong. You've given me something to consider. Maybe Richar can be the LH bench bat this team needs in 2009.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  5. #34
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Francisco. Dickerson is too old to be considered a prospect for me. Duran has yet to prove he can shave.

  6. #35
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Dickerson improved as he progressed and got his game together. He is coming off of a very good 2008 and is a player on the upswing. Dickerson also has better plate discipline and more raw power. Richar had a poor 2008 and lost some steam, but I see your point about his numbers overall. It concerns me that his On Base skills are more batting average driven and more prone to fluctuation. Of course, if a guy can hit it doesn't matter.

    Perhaps I give 2008 too much weight. I'd be thrilled to be wrong, because I do think that Richar has the defensive ability for 2B and shares the LH platoon advantage that contributes to Dickerson's package. I'd be real happy if Richar bounces back and proves you right and me wrong. You've given me something to consider. Maybe Richar can be the LH bench bat this team needs in 2009.
    Then why no love for Valaika? I understand the concept that getting a hit is prone to more fluctuation than working a walk (for the most part). However you are right if a guy can hit he can hit and you can pretty much expect the same BA every season. When looking for comps for Valaika you should look really hard at Michael Young and Ian Kinsler. He falls directly in the middle of those 2 but he hasn't had his age 23-24 seasons in minor league ball yet.

    I expect a .780-.800 OPS every season for Valaika with an .850+ in his prime years. Sure that may require an improvement in plate discipline but there's no reason yet to not expect him to improve it. His defense won't be Kent bad either in fact I'd expect it to be better than adequate at 2B. Still I wouldn't expect him to be a superstar or anything but he looks like a better than average starting 2B to me so far.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  7. #36
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by kheidg- View Post
    Forgot about Rosales, maybe he should be added sometime in the near future. Along with Hanigan.
    I'll add them around #10 or 11 if that's OK. I would add them now but I don't think they'll receive any votes at #9.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  8. #37
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    This poll is officially closed. Juan Francisco beat out Juan Duran by two votes.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  9. #38
    Member kpresidente's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Dickerson improved as he progressed and got his game together. He is coming off of a very good 2008 and is a player on the upswing. Dickerson also has better plate discipline and more raw power. Richar had a poor 2008 and lost some steam, but I see your point about his numbers overall. It concerns me that his On Base skills are more batting average driven and more prone to fluctuation. Of course, if a guy can hit it doesn't matter.

    Perhaps I give 2008 too much weight. I'd be thrilled to be wrong, because I do think that Richar has the defensive ability for 2B and shares the LH platoon advantage that contributes to Dickerson's package. I'd be real happy if Richar bounces back and proves you right and me wrong. You've given me something to consider. Maybe Richar can be the LH bench bat this team needs in 2009.
    Here's how I've always looked at prospects. "Real prospects" are guys between the ages of 20-24 (at least for batters, pitchers can be a little older), who are somewhere between A+ and AAA, and are age-appropriate to their level.

    That doesn't mean guys outside of that age bracketing are lost causes or anything, it just means I think about them differently. For older players, their window is small, and I need to see real production right now, otherwise I'm not looking at them. Looking at it that way, you're justified in giving Dickerson a higher rating, because Richar had his chance and blew it. That doesn't mean you drop him completely, though, because if the production comes back (which it very well could), so does the prospect status. It's just there's no more benefit of the doubt based on your tools anymore. But the same is true for Dickerson. He's earned his chance, but if the production's not there, and not there early, you're going to have to have a real quick hook with him.

    The real young guys, on the other hand, are such a big mystery I have to keep them in a seperate category as well. I'm no scout, and there's no stats to go by, so all you have is what you've read about their tools.

    That's why I don't get all into the prospect lists so much. For me, Duran, Dickerson and Francisco are so different based on their ages I have no real idea how to compare them. So I have 3 lists..."young prospects", "prospects", and "old prospects", and I don't mix them up. Duran is only interesting to me insofar as he compares to Rodriguez, not as he compares to Dickerson. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

  10. #39
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    This poll is officially closed. Juan Francisco beat out Juan Duran by two votes.
    This process is flawed. Duran initially won by one vote. Then the decision was made to do a runoff - Francisco won by 2. Why not another runoff? If not, what must the margin be to win?

  11. #40
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    The margin to win is around five votes in a regular poll. There's not much you can do in a runoff.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  12. #41
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by Betterread View Post
    This process is flawed. Duran initially won by one vote. Then the decision was made to do a runoff - Francisco won by 2. Why not another runoff? If not, what must the margin be to win?
    I don't think it is flawed. It is just that the people who voted for other players than those 3, favored JF in front of Duran. I voted for Duran in the runoff, though I voted for his Dominican side kick (Yorman) in the regular vote.

  13. #42
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    Re: Prospect #8 runoff vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    I don't think it is flawed. It is just that the people who voted for other players than those 3, favored JF in front of Duran. I voted for Duran in the runoff, though I voted for his Dominican side kick (Yorman) in the regular vote.
    Yorman is Venezuelan. :
    I miss Adam Dunn.


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