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Thread: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target this offseason? From recent posts I have come up with:

    3B - people seem split 50/50 on acquiring Beltre. Those who think EE won't ever get it done defensively want Beltre. Others want to give EE more time.

    LF - Swisher and Ordonez seem to have the most fans.
    Acquiring Holliday seems less desirable because it costs prospects and $$$$$.
    Burrell is a RH hitting older version of Dunn who the Reds brass didn't like.
    Signing Tex with Votto to LF costs $$$$$.
    Milton Bradley is a head case.
    Abreu, Giles & Ibanez hit left handed making them less desirable.
    Hermidia has some fans if he is truly available.
    I don't understand the love for Juan Rivera after a poor 2007 & 2008.
    Winn & Dejesus have been mentioned also.

    SS - I don't see any concensus here. Furcal is the only free agent worth talking about. Hardy will cost a lot and may not be up to snuff defensively.
    Khalil Greene is available but had a terrible year at the plate in 2008.
    Despite the reemergence of Barmes most don't think Tulowitzki is available.
    Maicer Itzuris is good defensively. He was ok at the plate in 2006 & 2007 but had a poor 2008.

    So the short list of targets I think people want Walt to attempt to get includes:
    3B - Beltre
    LF - Ordonez or Swisher. Dejesus, Winn & Hermidia are fallback options.
    SS - Furcal, Greene or Itzuris

    Am I missing anyone big?
    .

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    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    I'm in favor of acquiring Beltre and moving EdE to left field and then targeting a shortstop like Erick Aybar or Khalil Greene. I also like the idea of acquiring a guy like Jeremy Hermida or Nick Swisher to play left field.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    i honestly want Walt looking at Rios of the Blue Jays.. he fits that young outfield mold, has a decnt long term contract and really could help this team..

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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    I'll say what I've been saying all along:disrupt the core minimally as we look to contend in 2010, not 2009. Best chance to be good in 2009 and to see particularly how we will handle the left-field, first base situation in 2010 is to move EE to left and go out and get Beltre (or move Votto to left and EE to 1st). I'd also be in favor of a move of Phillips to SS, believing it will be easier to get a competent second baseman than a SS (though I'm still hoping for Gonzo in 2009, in which case obviously we leave Gonzo at SS and Phillips at 2b). I look for Alonso to be a regular on opening day 2010 and possibly Todd Frazier as well. First priority of the minor league operation should be to figure out if Todd Frazier can play third base at at least league average competency.

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    I think Beltre & Izturis makes a whole lot of sense for several reasons. Beltre makes quite a bit but not ridiculously so (12 mill) and he is a FA after '09 and likely one who if not re-signed would bring draft pick(s). At that point we may have a better read on if Frazier can take that spot over or not. If not then you have the option of re-signing Beltre for say 3 years and dealing EE (w/ a year before FA) and putting Frazier in LF. And then of course there is the obvious great defense at 3B and a solid RH bat.

    Don't get me wrong I do like OBM's guys as well Greene and Aybar. However they simply are not my 1st choice for one main reason, neither of them are currently a passable option in the #1 or #2 hole and of course Greene likely never will be. That's ok if you already have those options available to you. We have Dickerson who may answer one of those questions, but other than that nobody unless you plan on playing Hairston somewhere daily and no one is counting on him for a full season. We are Milwaukee-esque in our swing away mentality and have to make decisions that address that deficiency as best we can. Izturis can give you a passable OBP in the #2 hole, has respectable enough pop, hits for a solid average and runs the bases well all while playing above average defense. And he won't cost what Aybar will from LAA.

    That said if we cannot get a passable guy to hit at the top of the lineup we do the best we can to upgrade what we have in Gonzo and address what we can, defense 1st but with a guy who can give you at least what Gonzo could or better offensively. An interesting guy who could be attainable and probably won't cost much at all but may or may not hit is Alberto Gonzalez from the Nats. He could be an interesting fallback option if we cannot get any of the guys we have interest in.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Beltre

    I too am a fan of trading for Beltre and moving EE to LF.

    Then get Itzuris or Greene for SS.

    Re sign Affeldt.

    These moves won't cost much in the way of talent or money and the team would definitely be improved. Defensively it would be night and day compared to 2008.

    If Walt were to do these moves he could spend the rest of the offseason dumpster diving and I would be happy with the team in 2009 and beyond.
    .

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    I will also include I think Rivera makes some sense as well as Casey Blake. I know people would rather not sign Blake for a host of reasons but he is a RHB who is a decent run producer and is a good fit defensively in that he can play 3B or LF adequately. I ain't saying he's the greatest fit but he could be a good fit and as I pointed out with Beltre he could be a solid bridge to Frazier in LF or at 3B.

    Also we should also address the catching situation here. Russell Martin would be a great fit obviously, but he is an even greater fit because he would allow us to p/u a SS who doesn't need to hit in the #2 hole because he could. But that's probably just a pipedream, if I had to guess why the info came out on Martin like it has i'd call it a bit of a motivational tool. So where does that leave us? I'd say a Hanigan/Josh Bard semi-platoon would be fine.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Beltre

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    I too am a fan of trading for Beltre and moving EE to LF.

    Then get Itzuris or Greene for SS.

    Re sign Affeldt.

    These moves won't cost much in the way of talent or money and the team would definitely be improved. Defensively it would be night and day compared to 2008.

    If Walt were to do these moves he could spend the rest of the offseason dumpster diving and I would be happy with the team in 2009 and beyond.
    I wonder if the Greene situation is bad enough that they would take a Gonzo/Janish combo for him if we included half of Gonzo's salary. Assuming of course Gonzo could pass a medical exam.

    I should also ask if the Beltre deal wouldn't cost more than we think. I honestly get the sense that Seattle doesn't really have much of a reason to deal him unless they get a really good offer that they can't refuse.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 11-02-2008 at 04:07 PM.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    I'd sign Dunn to Play LF. really. 5 years $75 mil.

    I'd move BP to SS and deal AGon+ for prospects.

    I'd find a 2B in house or via FA. Hudson?

    My OF is Dunn, Dickerson and Bruce.

    IF EE, BP, a FA and Votto. Hannigan is the starting C.

    1-4 in the rotation is pretty set. Let Bailey, Thompson and Ramirez fight it out in ST for the #5 spot.

    If the Reds don't sign Dunn or anyone for LF (doubtful, they will get someone) I think they should look hard at Dorn.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I'd sign Dunn to Play LF. really. 5 years $75 mil.

    I'd move BP to SS and deal AGon+ for prospects.

    I'd find a 2B in house or via FA. Hudson?

    My OF is Dunn, Dickerson and Bruce.

    IF EE, BP, a FA and Votto. Hannigan is the starting C.

    1-4 in the rotation is pretty set. Let Bailey, Thompson and Ramirez fight it out in ST for the #5 spot.

    If the Reds don't sign Dunn or anyone for LF (doubtful, they will get someone) I think they should look hard at Dorn.
    1. You really believe the Reds could sign Dunn to a deal like that and that even discuss signing Hudson (or anyone else for that matter?) I don't have a problem with the latter but I do with the former. Dunn is gone, and he's not coming back. I think Reds fans need to accept that.

    2. I think you have to throw Owings and Masset into the mix for that fifth starter spot.

    3. I like looking at Dorn for LF, but at his best he is only a platoon player. They would still need a righty to hit against the left-handers, and I'm not sure a Hairston/Dorn platoon along with Dickerson makes for a competitive major league caliber outfield.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Member Highlifeman21's Avatar
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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan4445 View Post
    i honestly want Walt looking at Rios of the Blue Jays.. he fits that young outfield mold, has a decnt long term contract and really could help this team..
    You've been beating the Rios drum for at least 2 years now.

    What makes you think Walt will make it happen when the previous GM(s) could not or did not?

  13. #12
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    1. You really believe the Reds could sign Dunn to a deal like that and that even discuss signing Hudson (or anyone else for that matter?) I don't have a problem with the latter but I do with the former. Dunn is gone, and he's not coming back. I think Reds fans need to accept that.
    I don't think salary is the issue it used to be. 5/75 could be in the budget and still get Hudson.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    2. I think you have to throw Owings and Masset into the mix for that fifth starter spot.
    I keep forgetting about Owings.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    3. I like looking at Dorn for LF, but at his best he is only a platoon player. They would still need a righty to hit against the left-handers, and I'm not sure a Hairston/Dorn platoon along with Dickerson makes for a competitive major league caliber outfield.
    Maybe, but Dorn is still young enough to develop against LH Pitching. He's been so good against RH so far that I think he could OPS .800+ against the LH's.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    I don't think salary is the issue it used to be. 5/75 could be in the budget and still get Hudson.

    Maybe, but Dorn is still young enough to develop against LH Pitching. He's been so good against RH so far that I think he could OPS .800+ against the LH's.
    1. I agree it's not as much of an issue, but your scenario has me pretty skeptical. I estimate it would take at least 4/40 for Hudson, and that's pretty conservative. You really believe they could go out and sign up for 9 years/$115 MM for two position players, one of who is over 30 and has durability concerns and the other is a defensive nightmare? I wish you were right, because if the Reds could sign both of those guys, they'd be an instant WS contender, no doubt about it. However in the real world, I'm going to forget about Dunn, and focus on what we may realistically bring in.

    2. Again I hope you're right, but color me skeptical. Dorn has never shown any kind of competence against lefties, let alone OPSing .800+ in the majors. I see him strictly as a platoon guy (albeit a decent one.)

    FWIW I would focus on signing Orlando Hudson and trading Francisco Cordero for Magglio Ordonez. Re-sign Affeldt and have him and Roenicke setting up for Burton, with Masset as your primary long relief guy. Encarnacion's defense may be more tolerable when you have Hudson and Phillips manning the middle. Finally, I would consider dealing Daryl Thompson (and Francisco or Stubbs) for Max Ramirez or Taylor Teagarden. Then you have yourself quite a squad:

    2B Hudson
    1B Votto
    LF Ordonez
    RF Bruce
    3B Encarnacion
    SS Phillips
    C Ramirez/Teagarden/Hanigan
    CF Dickerson/Hairston

    SP Volquez
    SP Harang
    SP Cueto
    SP Arroyo
    SP Owings/Bailey

    If the Tigers don't want Cordero for Ordonez and/or if Hudson seeks a better deal somewhere else, I would turn my attention to Adrian Beltre and Matt Kemp. I would offer Phillips and Maloney/Ramirez for Kemp and Chin Hu, and I would offer Maloney/Ramirez and Valaika (assuming we don't trade Phillips) for Adrian Beltre. If all else failed, I would send Keppinger and Stubbs to the Sox for Nick Swisher.
    Last edited by Benihana; 11-02-2008 at 06:13 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    If the Tigers don't want Cordero for Ordonez and/or if Hudson seeks a better deal somewhere else, I would turn my attention to Adrian Beltre and Matt Kemp. I would offer Phillips and Maloney/Ramirez for Kemp and Chin Hu, and I would offer Maloney/Ramirez and Valaika (assuming we don't trade Phillips) for Adrian Beltre. If all else failed, I would send Keppinger and Stubbs to the Sox for Nick Swisher.
    Would Phillips land us Kemp? That's something I would investigate. What would it take to land Matt Kemp & Russell Martin? I have no idea what area the Dodger would be looking for, but if we could pull off that trade and sign Furcal.... That would be awesome. And we'd still have plenty of money left to sign bullpen and bench help.

    A lineup of:
    SS Furcal
    LF Kemp
    RF Bruce
    C Martin
    1BVotto
    3BEdE
    CFDickerson
    2B Richar/ W.Castillo

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    Re: Have we reached any concensus on who we want Walt to target?

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlifeman21 View Post
    You've been beating the Rios drum for at least 2 years now.

    What makes you think Walt will make it happen when the previous GM(s) could not or did not?
    im just stating my hopes.. Lindner didn't care and would never let that happen.. I am excited to see what Walt can do and Rios makes more sense than a old Detroit outfielder that is 35..and way over paid..


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