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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

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  • Zach Cozart

    0 0%
  • Chris Dickerson

    23 20.91%
  • Danny Dorn

    14 12.73%
  • Juan Duran

    38 34.55%
  • Carlos Fisher

    1 0.91%
  • Chris Heisey

    3 2.73%
  • Jeremy Horst

    0 0%
  • Matt Maloney

    1 0.91%
  • Devin Mesoraco

    4 3.64%
  • Ramon Ramirez

    4 3.64%
  • Yorman Rodriguez

    2 1.82%
  • Josh Roenicke

    2 1.82%
  • Zach Stewart

    12 10.91%
  • Justin Turner

    4 3.64%
  • Pedro Viola

    2 1.82%
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Thread: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

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  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Redszone's Top Prospects

    Prospect #1 - Yonder Alonso
    Prospect #2 - Todd Frazier
    Prospect #3 - Neftali Soto
    Prospect #4 - Drew Stubbs
    Prospect #5 - Chris Valaika
    Prospect #6 - Kyle Lotzkar
    Prospect #7 - Daryl Thompson
    Prospect #8 - Juan Francisco
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  2. #2
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    I'm gonna go with Juan Duran at #9. He's very, very young, but Duran has been described as being one of the best hitting prospects to ever come out of the Dominican Republic. That's very impressive when you look at all the great hitters to come from that island. He's probably five years from helping the Reds but his potential is so high it's enough for me to put him in the top ten. You don't find too many 16 years old described as having plus-plus power potential. And it's not like he's just a big slugger, some scouts have said he's athletic enough to play center field. While that's doubtful, the fact that scouts say that just goes to show how talented Duran is.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  3. #3
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'm gonna go with Juan Duran at #9. He's very, very young, but Duran has been described as being one of the best hitting prospects to ever come out of the Dominican Republic. That's very impressive when you look at all the great hitters to come from that island. He's probably five years from helping the Reds but his potential is so high it's enough for me to put him in the top ten. You don't find too many 16 years old described as having plus-plus power potential. And it's not like he's just a big slugger, some scouts have said he's athletic enough to play center field. While that's doubtful, the fact that scouts say that just goes to show how talented Duran is.
    I can't do it and I just don't see how anyone can, no disrespect intended. I don't care how high a guys alledged ceiling is, he must show me what he is capable of at least before he get's on the radar. At 16 years old it's kind of difficult for him to show me anything yet. Neftali Soto had an OPS of .809 in the GCL at age 18, that got him on the radar. Can Duran show an OPS of .800 in the DSL at the age of 17? Perhaps but until he does he isn't even on the top ten radar at all for me. Then after he is on the radar he can maybe do what Soto did and improve his OPS at the next level and then doing something like playing at a level high for his age and not slowing down much if at all to get into top 5 consideration.

    I wanted to vote Mesoraco here but I accidentally clicked on Dickerson apparentally because of the runoff.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  4. #4
    Member kheidg-'s Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Should add Ryan Hanigan and Adam Rosales

  5. #5
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by kheidg- View Post
    Should add Ryan Hanigan and Adam Rosales
    I'll add them on the next poll.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  6. #6
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I'll add them on the next poll.
    Cool, not saying they'd win but I think they at least deserve consideration 10-20.

  7. #7
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Been voting Duran since #4 and will keep it up til he gets it
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

  8. #8
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    I like Duran a lot but voted Dorn based on closeness to the majors. Time to add Evan Hildenbrandt in my view. I don't know how others feel about him but I'd rate him higher than at least half the current list.

  9. #9
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    915

    That's Dorn's minor league career OPS.

    915 would lead the Reds in OPS by a wide, wide margin. And he plays LF.

    His only problems are:
    1) He's not a high enough draft pick to warrant extra attention
    2) He's not RH

    Dorn can help neither. All he can do is to continue to hit.

    Here's betting he will do just that.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  10. #10
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    915

    That's Dorn's minor league career OPS.

    915 would lead the Reds in OPS by a wide, wide margin. And he plays LF.

    His only problems are:
    1) He's not a high enough draft pick to warrant extra attention
    2) He's not RH

    Dorn can help neither. All he can do is to continue to hit.

    Here's betting he will do just that.
    Yep, he's got my vote. I just don't have enough info to really rank Duran yet. I know his ceiling is enormous...but it's still early for me. I feel that Dorn has shown the most of this bunch to me (outside of Dickerson who I don't really consider a prospect at this point).

  11. #11
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    915

    That's Dorn's minor league career OPS.

    915 would lead the Reds in OPS by a wide, wide margin. And he plays LF.

    His only problems are:
    1) He's not a high enough draft pick to warrant extra attention
    2) He's not RH

    Dorn can help neither. All he can do is to continue to hit.

    Here's betting he will do just that.
    He's currently porjected to be a platoon leftfielder who plays average defense at best. I suspect that's what is hurting him in these votes.

  12. #12
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRM View Post
    He's currently porjected to be a platoon leftfielder who plays average defense at best. I suspect that's what is hurting him in these votes.
    This is where the projection people lose me. In one hand you have a guy like Dorn who was a late round draft pick who has done nothing but produce steadily and abundantly yet continues to fly under the radar. On the other hand you have a guy like Drew Stubbs who was a high pick who has shown contact issues and inconsistent power at an advanced age for his level, barring the final month and a half of the last season.

    The Stubbs supporters will point out that he combines good OBP skills with plus defense and speed, and is projected to improve his power.

    Juan Fransisco supporters will suggest that if he can learn to become slightly more selective year after year than he could become a very dangerous power hitter.

    Homer Bailey supporters will suggest he has the ability to develop and locate his secondary pitches. The list goes on and on of prospects who are thought to have this internal ability to improve their game in a certain area.

    And then there are the guys, like Dorn, who for whatever reason are not given the benefit of the doubt that other prospects are. Why doesn't Dorn project to become an everyday player? If your reason is that he will merely turn out to be a platoon player because he has struggled to hit against lefties than why do you think he doesn't have the ability to improve? If I say that I think it is reasonable that he could improve to hit 250/330/400 against lefties is that enough to change his projectability? I'm not discounting BA and scouts opinions because they're useful but I'm not going to completely ignore production or minimize a prospect because he doesn't have the same following like the other guys. The other guys are pretty safe prospects to "project" because we all can recognize their individual talents and athleticism even if they don't ever pan out as ML's, however Dorn is a guy who was passed over many times yet continues to produce like he doesn't know better. Someone should just go tell him he's garbage and that he's not a very good baseball player. Judging from his results I don't know if he'll be listening to you.
    Last edited by Orenda; 11-03-2008 at 01:38 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    This is where the projection people lose me. In one hand you have a guy like Dorn who was a late round draft pick who has done nothing but produce steadily and abundantly yet continues to fly under the radar. On the other hand you have a guy like Drew Stubbs who was a high pick who has shown contact issues and inconsistent power at an advanced age for his level, barring the final month and a half of the last season.

    The Stubbs supporters will point out that he combines good OBP skills with plus defense and speed, and is projected to improve his power.

    Juan Fransisco supporters will suggest that if he can learn to become slightly more selective year after year than he could become a very dangerous power hitter.

    Homer Bailey supporters will suggest he has the ability to develop and locate his secondary pitches. The list goes on and on of prospects who are thought to have this internal ability to improve their game in a certain area.

    And then there are the guys, like Dorn, who for whatever reason are not given the benefit of the doubt that other prospects are. Why doesn't Dorn project to become an everyday player? If your reason is that he will merely turn out to be a platoon player because he has struggled to hit against lefties than why do you think he doesn't have the ability to improve? If I say that I think it is reasonable that he could improve to hit 250/330/400 against lefties is that enough to change his projectability? I'm not discounting BA and scouts opinions because they're useful but I'm not going to completely ignore production or minimize a prospect because he doesn't have the same following like the other guys. The other guys are pretty safe prospects to "project" because we all can recognize their individual talents and athleticism even if they don't ever pan out as ML's, however Dorn is a guy who was passed over many times yet continues to produce like he doesn't know better. Someone should just go tell him he's garbage and that he's not a very good baseball player. Judging from his results I don't know if he'll be listening to you.
    I don't think you will find anyone thats a bigger supporter of Danny Dorn than me, but here are a few things on why he isn't rated yet.

    1. He plays a position very easy to fill at the major league level with a guy who can OPS .800.
    2. He can't hit lefties at all. He shows plate discipline against them, which is good, but he has no power against them.
    3. His defense isn't anything special and he isn't strong armed either.

    Those are the three biggest things going against him. That said, I ranked him as my #9 guy in the system because even if he is just a platoon player, 400-450 PA of what he brings against right handed pitching is too hard to pass up.

  14. #14
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Quote Originally Posted by summerplight View Post
    This is where the projection people lose me. In one hand you have a guy like Dorn who was a late round draft pick who has done nothing but produce steadily and abundantly yet continues to fly under the radar. On the other hand you have a guy like Drew Stubbs who was a high pick who has shown contact issues and inconsistent power at an advanced age for his level, barring the final month and a half of the last season.

    The Stubbs supporters will point out that he combines good OBP skills with plus defense and speed, and is projected to improve his power.

    Juan Fransisco supporters will suggest that if he can learn to become slightly more selective year after year than he could become a very dangerous power hitter.

    Homer Bailey supporters will suggest he has the ability to develop and locate his secondary pitches. The list goes on and on of prospects who are thought to have this internal ability to improve their game in a certain area.

    And then there are the guys, like Dorn, who for whatever reason are not given the benefit of the doubt that other prospects are. Why doesn't Dorn project to become an everyday player? If your reason is that he will merely turn out to be a platoon player because he has struggled to hit against lefties than why do you think he doesn't have the ability to improve? If I say that I think it is reasonable that he could improve to hit 250/330/400 against lefties is that enough to change his projectability? I'm not discounting BA and scouts opinions because they're useful but I'm not going to completely ignore production or minimize a prospect because he doesn't have the same following like the other guys. The other guys are pretty safe prospects to "project" because we all can recognize their individual talents and athleticism even if they don't ever pan out as ML's, however Dorn is a guy who was passed over many times yet continues to produce like he doesn't know better. Someone should just go tell him he's garbage and that he's not a very good baseball player. Judging from his results I don't know if he'll be listening to you.
    I don't have a problem whatsoever with Dorn. In fact I agree he's being overlooked for what reason I am not sure, but I think I have an idea. Perhaps it's got something to do with the fact that people may be a bit misinformed about him. I know I was, I just went ahead and assumed the worst when told he was a bad fielder who could only play LF and who couldn't hit vs. LHP's. As it turns out he does have a tough time vs. LHP's but what wasn't suggested is that he is still being disciplined and making no less contact against them than vs. RHP's but just isn't hitting them hard....yet.

    I also hadn't realized that he had played quite a bit of 1st base this season where he was pretty solid in terms of errors (1) and he seemed to exhibit really nice (Votto-esque) range at the position, according to the #'s anyway. But I also learned that he has only had 3 errors in the OF in his minor league career. So perhaps he isn't as bad as advertised, and he definitely has the defensive versatility that I was previously unaware of until I went and looked harder myself recently.

    IMO I definitely put him ahead of Duran and Francisco but I always did anyway. The question is do I move him ahead of a kid with a high ceiling that showed me something who plays at a premium position, (Mes). I probably should but Catcher is one of the 2 hardest positions to fill if not the hardest with a quality player which I still believe he is. And the fact that he is a catcher in itself makes him a more valuable prospect. Dorn IMO is a no doubt top 10 Reds prospect and a better one than people are giving him credit for. Mostly because they are relying on someone else to give them all the info and not looking closely into it themselves.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

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  15. #15
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    Re: Who is Redszone's #9 prospect?

    Chris Heisey because of his combination of speed, power and hitting ability


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