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Thread: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

  1. #16
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    But by the time that happens, the Reds are entrenched and hopefully with a good reputation. And that helps alot.
    So why not entrench ourselves in Latin America where ML talent has come from?
    I am not really disagreeing with another possible baseball academy just playing a little devils advocate.
    "When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

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  3. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Johnny Cueto says hi.

    Eventually yes, you are absolutely right, but if a team can get into a region where nobody else is, make a solid presence, and take care of the players, then they have an advantage. The reason the Reds are spending so much jack in Latin America is to build a presence in where other teams have been for years. Throwing money there seems to be working. But being in on the ground floor might be cheaper and reap more long term benefits.

    The Reds would need the right combination of scouts and instructors willing to go in on any academy outside the U.S.
    Sure, but when Johnny Cueto signed there were kids in the Dominican signing 7 figure deals. Want to know what gets you an advantage? When a guy like Ismael Guillon turns down 1.2 million from the Mets to sign with the Reds for 625,000 last month. He is really good friends with Yorman Rodriguez and signed with the Reds for a whole lot cheaper than he had on the table. The Reds seem to have a world wide presence currently, with signings out of Asia, Europe, Austrailia and Latin America.

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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Sure, but when Johnny Cueto signed there were kids in the Dominican signing 7 figure deals. Want to know what gets you an advantage? When a guy like Ismael Guillon turns down 1.2 million from the Mets to sign with the Reds for 625,000 last month. He is really good friends with Yorman Rodriguez and signed with the Reds for a whole lot cheaper than he had on the table. The Reds seem to have a world wide presence currently, with signings out of Asia, Europe, Austrailia and Latin America.
    You just made my point. It's a moneyball point too. Take advantage of inequities in the market. The Reds threw a ton of money at a half dozen guys and got one at half price in part because of it. Now imagine they throw a ton of money at 3-4 dozen guys where they have little or NO COMPETITION.

    I'm not saying get out of Latin America. I'm saying get into an area filled with athletes and minimal MLB presence. Africa, certainly South Africa seem ready to jump into baseball at the world level. In fact there are a lot os similarities to Latin America in regards to the economic level of the prospective player.

    It's win-win.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbachunk View Post
    So why not entrench ourselves in Latin America where ML talent has come from?
    I am not really disagreeing with another possible baseball academy just playing a little devils advocate.
    I'm not saying don't do that either. I am simply stating exploit an area like South Africa when it's in the early stages can reap a long term benefit. And initially it would also be cheaper. There is no reason not to.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  6. #20
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    You just made my point. It's a moneyball point too. Take advantage of inequities in the market. The Reds threw a ton of money at a half dozen guys and got one at half price in part because of it. Now imagine they throw a ton of money at 3-4 dozen guys where they have little or NO COMPETITION.

    I'm not saying get out of Latin America. I'm saying get into an area filled with athletes and minimal MLB presence. Africa, certainly South Africa seem ready to jump into baseball at the world level. In fact there are a lot os similarities to Latin America in regards to the economic level of the prospective player.

    It's win-win.
    Everyone signs kids for $5,000-$100,000 out of Latin America every year. Sometimes those kids turn into Jose Reyes, sometimes they turn into guys who never step foot on American soil as a baseball player. You have to get cheap guys and expensive guys to maximize your chances.

    That said, you are right, it would be interesting to see the Reds go over there and see what happens. Thats a huge investment though and if it showed any progress you aren't going to have a monopoly for very long on the talent pool.

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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That said, you are right, it would be interesting to see the Reds go over there and see what happens. Thats a huge investment though and if it showed any progress you aren't going to have a monopoly for very long on the talent pool.
    I don't think the monopoly approach is what the Reds should be concerned with so much as it is they should be concerned with establishing an early presence. It took the Reds a long time to catch up in Latin America...

  8. #22
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    To go further on what TRF is suggesting, this is from yesterdays USA Today:

    Rinku Singh and Dinesh Patel, two 19-year-olds from small villages in India, desperately want to live the American dream. Their shot at it is a decidedly improbable one.

    They had never picked up a baseball until a year ago. Thursday, they will pitch in front of major league scouts in Tempe, Ariz., in hopes of landing a professional baseball contract.

    "This is the most amazing thing I've been part of," says Tom House, University of Southern California pitching coach and former major league pitcher, who has spent the last six months training the duo.

    Singh, a 6-2, 195-pound left-hander, throws 89-90 mph with a split-fingered changeup. He continually tinkers with different breaking balls. Patel, a 5-11, 185-pound right-hander, throws 91-92 mph with a circle changeup. Patel says he's the conservative one of the two, leaving the experimenting to Singh.
    Entire article here

  9. #23
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    [QUOTE=OnBaseMachine;1758454]Funny you should mention South Africa, TRF. The Pirates just signed an 18-year-old shortstop from South Africa a few days ago. His name is Mpho Ngoepe...below is an article on it:
    QUOTE]

    That kid needs to add an o b/w the M & the p in his first name. He'd instantly lead the mlb in jersey sales

  10. #24
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    To digress a little, the two Italians the Reds signed last year had impressive debuts.

    Code:
    Luca Panerati
     Year  Age Tm  Lg  Lvl Aff  W   L   W-L%   G   GS  CG SHO  GF  SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  BK   ERA   WHIP
    +----+----+---+---+---+---+---+---+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+------+-----+
    2008   18 RDS GCL Rk  CIN   1   0 1.000   10   0   0   0   3   0   19     18    7    6   0    3    8   0   2    78    0   0   2.84  1.11
    
    Matteo Pizziconi
     Year  Age Tm  Lg  Lvl Aff  W   L   W-L%   G   GS  CG SHO  GF  SV   IP     H    R   ER   HR  BB   SO  HBP  WP  BFP  IBB  BK   ERA   WHIP
    +----+----+---+---+---+---+---+---+-----+----+---+---+---+---+---+------+----+----+----+---+----+----+---+---+-----+---+---+------+-----+
    2008   18 RDS GCL Rk  CIN   3   0 1.000   15   0   0   0   5   0   25.2   18    3    2   0   11   15   4   1   102    0   0   0.70  1.13

  11. #25
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I don't think the monopoly approach is what the Reds should be concerned with so much as it is they should be concerned with establishing an early presence. It took the Reds a long time to catch up in Latin America...
    kind of what I was thinking. Doug's right in that as soon as positive results are attained other teams will follow. The key is to get in early and make a positive impression. From South Africa to India there is a large untapped market. I'm thrilled the Reds are finally doing well in Latin America. I believe they still have an academy in Australia. Asia has not really been bountiful for the Reds thus far, but I think that is a cultural problem that I think M2 has pointed to in the past.

    Players from South Africa and India might adjust a little better to a smller interior market where players from east Asia might prefer coastal teams.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #26
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    I was thinking, I bet the Reds are getting to be quite popular down in the Dominican Republic these days. We have perhaps the best young Dominican pitcher in baseball (Volquez) and another young Dominican with extremely high upside in Johnny Cueto. Francisco Cordero is our closer. Edwin Encarnacion is a good young hitter. We have power hitting Juan Francisco in the minors. Plus the Reds just signed Juan Duran, a 16-year old viewed as one of the best young hitters to come from the Dominican, and they also signed others like Junior Arias and Anyelo Polanco. It's nice getting all this recognition - it should help with future signings.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  13. #27
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    Re: Reds investing heavily in Latin players (interesting article from Reds website)

    i'm thrilled that the reds have decided to not only invest more in latin america but to make it an ongoing thing. it can only help us have a top 10 farm system every year which will help the reds win more over the next 10 years.

    i'm all for similar opportunities in other parts of the world as well. a business, whether it's the reds or whoever, needs to be open to opportunities that can help them wherever those opportunities may be. when mlb first looked to latin america decades ago didn't the first mlb teams to invest benefit more and for years and years?

    the ground floor can help alot with an established reputation and important connections. competition will catch up eventually but it can sometimes cost more to do so. not always but that makes those connections that much more important. by the time the competition catches up, you've already created an established reputation which is an asset and can still be an advantage years later, even if only a slight one, if used correctly.

    latin/intl players alone won't make the reds winners but it will definitely help.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."


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