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Thread: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

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    Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    I am getting super excited about the play of Todd Frazier and Yonder Alonso.. I know that winter stats can be deceiving, but both these guys are carrying on a tradition of successful play. Yes, they are only just 21 & 22 years of age, but Bruce is only 21 as well. Yes, they could benefit from more seasoning in the minors, but if they are the future of the Reds that makes the Reds so good in 2010, what would it hurt to let them get their seasoning in the majors? They both seem to be guys w/ high confidence levels, so why would struggling in the majors hurt them anymore than guys like Bruce (or Cueto)?

    I propose that the Reds go ahead and do the inevitable and move Votto to Left field. AND either start out of gate w/ Alonso & Frazier or bring them up after a month or 2 (a la Bruce)

    Trades
    Phillips+ for Russell Martin
    EdE, Daryl Thompson for Conor Jackson

    - Jackson would be the perfect pickup because he could spell Alonso, Votto, or Bruce against tough lefties, Diamondbacks will be looking to rearrange their infield w/ the loss of O.Hudson
    -Phillips glove is a nice asset and he carries a nice bat along w/ it, but if he could land us Russel Martin... I'll pack his bags for him, Richar is a nice looking prospect and we shouldn't lose much defensively and could be end up being pleasantly surprised offensively.

    Since we're going really young and cheap here, and also getting rid of Phillip's salary as well as the arb eligible EdE, we should have tons of money to spend on the bullpen and bench.

    FA Signings
    Furcal (3 yr. 42 mil)
    Marte
    Dennys Reyes
    Weathers

    This would put us at a payroll of about 78mil, some projections put us at spending around $84, so pickups for the bench would be nice.

    Lineup
    SS Furcal
    1b Jackson/Alonso
    RF Bruce
    C Martin
    LF Votto
    3b Frazier/Keppinger
    CF Dickerson
    2b Richar

    Bench
    Inf/C W. Castillo
    c R. Hannigan
    1b/OF Jackson
    Inf/Of Freel
    Inf Keppinger
    FA power bat

    So... basically, we're Phillips trade and Furcal signing away from a young team that is very competitive (a la Tampa Bay Rays).

    Thoughts?

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    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Wow, Keppinger went from a guy who hits .300 everywhere he plays to a guy who can't beat out Danny Richar...Give Kepp a break guys- 2008 was an injury year for him; it doesn't represent his true value.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    i don't think penciling Richar in at 2nd precludes Kepp at 2nd. Kepp will prob start at 3rd, however, early on until Frazier is called up and may likely play a lot there while Frazier takes his lumps along the learning curve. (of course I'm assuming EdE is traded here)

    But if Frazier's getting it done at 3rd while Kepp & Richar figure out to be about the same defensively... then I'll join you on the Kepp at 2nd bandwagon.
    Last edited by hippie07; 11-09-2008 at 03:04 PM.

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    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Wow, Keppinger went from a guy who hits .300 everywhere he plays to a guy who can't beat out Danny Richar...Give Kepp a break guys- 2008 was an injury year for him; it doesn't represent his true value.
    Jeff Keppinger is more 2008 than he is 2007.

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Jeff Keppinger is more 2008 than he is 2007.
    Based on what? Certainly not his track record...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Member Crosley68's Avatar
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Jeff Keppinger is more 2008 than he is 2007.
    I don't think we know this for sure.

    My guess is somewhere in the middle. If this is true then he could be a piece of the puzzle but not the complete answer himself.
    Let's play two!!!

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Keppinger would make an ideal platoon player at 2B. Too bad Phillips plays 2B and the Reds aren't looking at moving him to short. A Richar/ Keppinger platoon might be okay at the keystone spot, but not, IMO, at short.

    OTOH, a Keppinger/ Dorn platoon in LF would be interesting, as could a Keppinger/ Dickerson platoon in center, assuming the former Bulldog could learn to play center. (He did play some OF during ST last season, if memory serves. Was it all on the corner or did he try some CF, too?)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
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    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Wow, Keppinger went from a guy who hits .300 everywhere he plays to a guy who can't beat out Danny Richar...Give Kepp a break guys- 2008 was an injury year for him; it doesn't represent his true value.
    His feet of stone, and lack of power, help to dissuade people from joining his cult. I would rather see Keppinger traded, he is the new Ryan Freel, a player the masses, and the club sponsored media love.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    I actually don't think the idea of accelerating Frazier's track is a bad idea. He was a college player and he's done a year in the minors...I'd start him at AAA and move him up if he does well after a couple months. I would groom him for 3B and move EdE to LF.

    Alonso on the other hand I still think needs some time.

  11. #10
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Jeff Keppinger is a bench player. He's not even a supersub.

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Jeff Keppinger is more 2008 than he is 2007.
    Any evidence to support this? From what I can see, his peripherals suggest otherwise.

    Perhaps the slugging was a bitter higher than expected in 2007, but the average and OBP are completely legit. He makes a ton of solid contact and rarely strikes out. That drives a high batting average and solid OBP. In 2008, he had just a .275 BABIP despite a 21.0 LD%.

    I'll agree that he's not likely to hit .332/.400/.477 again, but .320/.375/.425 is quite reasonable based on what he does in the box -- and what he did in the box in 2008.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Any lineup the pencils in Keppinger at third better come with an awfully big eraser.

    Cause you're going to need it.

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer View Post
    Jeff Keppinger is a bench player. He's not even a supersub.
    based on what?

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    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    based on what?
    Lack of Range on defense? .660ish OPS? No Power to speak of? But he has enough ability to make hard contact against lefties to make him useful in the right role. As long as the team doesn't have somebody else to do that job that can do other things as well its a decent, even though a very specialized, role for him. He's got pretty good hands. He'd probably be a decent RH half of a 1B platoon even though his power isn't ideal. Against lefties he'd hit enough to make up for it. Don't really want to see his two step range in the MI though.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    Re: Why Can't 2010 be 2009? - Alonso & Frazier...

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Lack of Range on defense? .660ish OPS? No Power to speak of? But he has enough ability to make hard contact against lefties to make him useful in the right role. As long as the team doesn't have somebody else to do that job that can do other things as well its a decent, even though a very specialized, role for him. He's got pretty good hands. He'd probably be a decent RH half of a 1B platoon even though his power isn't ideal. Against lefties he'd hit enough to make up for it. Don't really want to see his two step range in the MI though.
    I think too much of your opinion is based on 2008. His career numbers show he's better. There isn't anything you can tell me that would make me believe that the injury didn't impact his play. I'm not saying he should be a starter, but I think he can definitely be a supersub.


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