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Thread: A's get Holliday

  1. #76
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    I've never tooted my own horn here before, but I'm going to this time...

    From the "Cardinals seriously looking at Holiday..GRRR" thread...

    11-09-2008, 11:34 PM #41
    fearofpopvol1
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    I could totally see Beane getting Holliday. It seems like a moneyball move. He'll recollect prospects after the season is over and the A's were already close last year. I think that makes perfect sense.

    On a side note, the Rox have to be feeling pretty stupid right about now passing up on Ludwick for this package. Unless they were so high on Street or something (if he is even included). Still Ludwick is going to do a better job of making up for the loss of Holliday than the A's package will.

    Does anyone think the Reds are just damned because they have so many young, cheap players that project to be good contributors? And that no team is going to trade with the Reds unless they give up one of the young guns? I mean, Cueto compared to this package? The Reds easily could've/should've been able to assemble a package similar to the one the Rox bit for that wouldn't require any major prospects.
    Last edited by fearofpopvol1; 11-11-2008 at 11:18 AM.


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  3. #77
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    The A's were also (and still might be) trying to get Ludwick:

    As of last night, neither side was confirming the deal since it involved the completion of physicals, and it wasn't 100 percent that Street was included, though he had recently been dangled to the St. Louis Cardinals for Ryan Ludwick.

  4. #78
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Madsen and Lidge were huge to the Phillies in the playoffs this season. I also remember when Rodney, Zumaya, and Jones were all healthy and pitching well for the Tigers. Having a good to great pen gives the team a great deal of flexibility. We all saw a few years ago how important the bullpen was when the Reds continued to lose lead after lead because of a bad pen.
    Everyone you have mentioned above has had their share of ups and downs.

    That's why I say relief pitchers and closers are very unpredictable and very often overrated.

    (JMHO) but I believe it is follhardy to throw a large portion of your budget towards the bullpen.

    Good starting pitching + a productive offense = a good bullpen.
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 11-12-2008 at 03:16 AM.

  5. #79
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    Rockies-Athletics trade made official, with Holliday headed to Oakland

    OAKLAND, Calif. -- The Oakland Athletics completed their trade for star outfielder Matt Holliday from the Colorado Rockies on Wednesday, acquiring the big bat they wanted for the middle of their lineup.

    The Rockies receive right-handed reliever Huston Street, lefty starter Greg Smith and promising outfielder Carlos Gonzalez from the A's. The clubs reached a tentative agreement Monday, but had to wait for the results of physicals and other details to be worked out.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3698215

  6. #80
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    How is that Haren deal lookin'? Why in the world does Beane want Holliday? I bet Matt is thrilled as well. Gonzalez was supposed to be the next big thing or, at least, that's what many were saying last winter. Beane traded 3 years of Dan Haren for 1 year of Matt Holliday. That was good a idea.

    When you lose a deal with Dan O'dowd, you are doing something.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  7. #81
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    How is that Haren deal lookin'? Why in the world does Beane want Holliday? I bet Matt is thrilled as well. Gonzalez was supposed to be the next big thing or, at least, that's what many were saying last winter. Beane traded 3 years of Dan Haren for 1 year of Matt Holliday. That was good a idea.

    When you lose a deal with Dan O'dowd, you are doing something.
    Beane didn't get tooled by O'dowd and Gonzalez still looks to become the same player he looked to become before he was traded to Oakland.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #82
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    How is that Haren deal lookin'? Why in the world does Beane want Holliday? I bet Matt is thrilled as well. Gonzalez was supposed to be the next big thing or, at least, that's what many were saying last winter. Beane traded 3 years of Dan Haren for 1 year of Matt Holliday. That was good a idea.

    When you lose a deal with Dan O'dowd, you are doing something.
    That's a good point, although I guess in fairness, he got 1 year of Gonzales and 1 year of Holliday for three years of Haren, plus I guess he'll get draft picks when Holliday leaves as a FA (or whatever he fetches at the deadline).

    I don't understand why the A's are trying to go for it this year after just a few months ago dumping everyone. Wasn't the rally call for the A's last year that you might as well burn it to the ground if you aren't going to contend in the near future?

    Picking up Halliday is a good move if the A's are going for it next year. That's what I'm assuming, but I don't follow them that much.
    [Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #83
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    Ya have to greatly admire Beane. He's one smart GM. IMO, the only reason he acquired Holliday was to have the trading chip. The guy could make one heck of a cars salesman.
    "In my day you had musicians who experimented with drugs. Now it's druggies experimenting with music" - Alfred G Clark (circa 1972)

  10. #84
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    Re: A's get Holliday

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    Ya have to greatly admire Beane. He's one smart GM. IMO, the only reason he acquired Holliday was to have the trading chip. The guy could make one heck of a cars salesman.
    I don't think you should underestimate Beane's logic of simply cashing in. It was as much about turning potential value in to realized value as it was acquiring Holiday, the player, in particular.

    Smith is a candidate for complete implosion given his peripherals. Gonzalez is very clearly still a prospect. Street is a solid, but not spectacular, reliever who is on the cusp of being quite expensive. None of those guys will ever be a star and all 3 could easily decrease significantly in value. Holliday is as rock solid an asset as exists in baseball.

    Even if their on the field value is roughly equal, Beane wins because he traded away a significant amount of downside risk and didn't have to give up a much upside risk to do it. It's like he traded in a 50% chance to win $100 for $75 in cash.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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