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Thread: Does LaRue Have Any Trade Value?

  1. #16
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    He is worse than an average hitting catcher. Of 16 major league catchers who caught 100 games or more, only 3 have lower batting averages than Larue. The only one who struck out more than Larue is Posada who also has 93 RBIs.

    Of all major league players, Larue is number 32 in strikeouts (with 113). He is number 231 in walks (with 25).

    He seems like a hard worker and has a great arm. But he has to be the number one regular player to depart this off season or to become a full-time backup.

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  3. #17
    J-Rod
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    LaRue

    .250-12-50 (projected)

    50% BSC

    are not bad numbers for a starting catcher.
    He does let by some passed balls, but to say he is nothing more than a backup is inacurate.

  4. #18
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    You can have those #'s. Larue has not progressed as a hitter or receiver. When do you draw the line? He's had ample opportunity.

  5. #19
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    Originally posted by Kc61
    He is worse than an average hitting catcher. Of 16 major league catchers who caught 100 games or more, only 3 have lower batting averages than Larue.
    Or, you could say that Larue is 13th in hitting with catchers with 100 or more games. Of 32 teams. If a catcher hasn't caught 100 games, he ain't a regular. 13th out of 32. Seems above average to me. Only 16 catchers are deemed worthy to be called regulars. We're lucky we have one. Oh, by the way, Larue is 5th in the NL in HR's for a catcher. He's also 5th in RBI's. There are only 3 catchers in the NL with more HR's and RBI's than Larue, and one, Liberthal, has only 1 more RBI. He has a better OPS than Kendall and Deluca, two cathers who are considered good hitting catchers. The only catcher in the NL who has generated more RBI's per AB (at least 300 AB's) is Mike Piazza. Comparing his stats to all baseball players in ranking his ability as a catcher is misleading, as most catcher's stats stink. I've changed my mind, Larue is not an average hitting cather. He's above average.

  6. #20
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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  7. #21
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    32 teams? Did I miss another expansion? Aren't there 30 teams?

  8. #22
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    Puffy left out some stats on Larue. The one that catches my eye is Jason's strikeout to walk ratio. According to ESPN, there are a few major league catchers with better strikeout/walk ratios than Jason -- say 72 of them. 73rd in this category is not pretty. And it is well below average.

    I compared him earlier to 100 game catchers because, for some reason that escapes me, the Reds have treated him as belonging in that category. His .247 is among the lowest in that group. He probably fares better when compared to the part-timers.

    Larue as a back up or part timer is okay. As an everyday starter is unacceptable. The Reds need to get somebody else.

  9. #23
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    You can look at any stat you want, but I would bet that OPS and RBI's are considered more important than Walk to SO ratio. You really fail to consider the fact that catchers historically (and specifically now) aren't great hitters. If you drive in runs (and Larue drives in runs better than any regular NL catcher except Piazza) you must be doing something right. I'll take a run producer anytime. I'm not suggesting that he is Barry Bonds. But he's not the Juan Castro you portray. There are only a handful of regular catchers in the NL who outhit him. I'm not interested in stats of all major leaguers, just catchers. And saying he can't hit because of his walk/SO ratio is ridiculous at the expense of ignoring his power and RBI stats, which are above average for regular, NL catchers. You say I left out some stats. I certainty did not leave out any important ones. Can you say the same??

  10. #24
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Catchers, historically, better be darn good defensively if they don't hit. Unfortunately, there are more than "a handful of regular catchers in the NL" who can "outcatch" him. I don't see a whole lot of stats or reasons that substantiate keeping Larue as an everyday catcher.

  11. #25
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    The AVERAGE Major League catcher has an OPS of .695 this season, LaRue has a .722 OPS.

    He's above average.

    PSR

  12. #26
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    More on LaRue's offense.

    There are 35 ML catchers that have 200+ At Bats in 2002. LaRue is the 12th best, with a .728 OPS (as a catcher).

    He's the 8th best NL catcher.

    Someone mentioned wanting Joe Girardi. Well, he's got a 0.554 OPS, and is 34th of 35 in OPS.

    PSR

  13. #27
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    I'm about to give up on statistical dueling here. Larue strikes out about once in every three plate appearances. Even Adam Dunn is about one in four. Larue almost never walks. When any batter makes contact so infrequently, he is a huge detriment. It may be acceptable when the guy hits 25 home runs. But a major league hitter (non-pitcher) has to make contact.

    Larue is not the man for the Reds.

  14. #28
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    Here's what you can expect from a catcher as far as hitting goes based on ALL MLB catchers since 1990

    Code:
      
    
    YEAR  AVG  SLG  OBA  OPS     
    1990 .251 .368 .320 .687    
    1991 .245 .360 .304 .664  
    1992 .243 .361 .308 .669  
    1993 .255 .396 .319 .714    
    1994 .254 .404 .323 .727   
    1995 .255 .396 .323 .719   
    1996 .259 .408 .325 .733     
    1997 .263 .408 .328 .737    
    1998 .255 .396 .319 .715   
    1999 .263 .411 .329 .740    
    2000 .265 .422 .339 .762   
    2001 .250 .393 .312 .705    
    TOT  .255 .394 .321 .715   
    

  15. #29
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    Originally posted by Kc61
    I'm about to give up on statistical dueling here. Larue strikes out about once in every three plate appearances. Even Adam Dunn is about one in four. Larue almost never walks. When any batter makes contact so infrequently, he is a huge detriment. It may be acceptable when the guy hits 25 home runs. But a major league hitter (non-pitcher) has to make contact.

    Larue is not the man for the Reds.
    I can see why you're giving up, you're fighting a losing battle. All you can keep saying in your defence is Larue strikes out at an alarming pace. It's true. But I'm more concerned about overall performance. SO's for batters are very much overrated. Larue does not ground into excessive DP's. He's not an elite hitter. So what?? He's a better than average hitting catcher. He's an elite thrower as a catcher, the best in the majors. He's below average at fielding his position and calling a game. But if you had to rate the Reds players this year based on expectations, Kearns and Walker would be above average, Larue and Boone would be average, and Casey, Larkin, Dunn, Griffey would be below expectations. I'm not so sure why Larue should get blamed for giving us what we expected...a slightly above average year for a catcher. Can we do better?? I doubt we can unless we take $$$ from we we need it the most...pitching. I can assure you that the Reds management aren't thinking that catching is a huge hole to fill. And I doubt that Larue will be traded unless another frontline catcher has been, or will be, obtained. Miller and Stinnett are not the answer. Unless the question is "The thought of what catching duo makes you want to puke?"

  16. #30
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    You can spend all the money in the world on pitching, but if you don't have a guy that has a clue behind the plate to catch(????) it, you'll probably be in trouble.

    I really thought that Larue was going to be a good catcher for the Reds. I thought that he would mature as a receiver and hitter, but I just don't see it happening. Based on what I see the majority of the time from Larue, I can't see any improvement whatsoever in either area. Add that with his propensity for melting down in crucial situations, and I don't know how anyone can say that his performance is acceptable. I don't think that the Reds pitchers have a whole lot of confidence in Larue, and I think it negatively affects the pitching staff.

    I could probably live with Larue's hitting (with minor improvement year to year) if he was a good defensive catcher who handled the pitching staff and called a good game. He does none of those things. I would not, however, begin to think about calling him a "good hitter" because he simply is not. I think that there has to be better options for the Reds behind the plate at this point. For starters, Corky Miller. I have just seen enough of Larue's incompetence.


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