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Thread: Bob Boone Supporters, Chime in Please!

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  1. #1
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    For some odd reason, Steel, I would be willing to bet that Red Dog knows oodles about the game. Mega oodles.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  2. #2
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Yeppers Randy. After the past couple of weeks, we could use a little levity.

    It's only besboll.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  3. #3
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    I liked Jack.

    I like Bob.

    Some of you on the other hand... :evilgrin:

    J/K

    Jennifer, I'm just not sure. Gives a whole new meaning to yanking a pitcher early. :smokin:
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  4. #4
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Using Jennifer as a manager would be a tremendous waste of talent.

    I see her as trainer and strength coach. I'll bet nobody would ever, ever miss pre-game stretching again with her running the show!!

    On the other hand, I can also forsee all 25 guys lined up at once outside the trainers room for treatment on their new found groin injuries!!!


    :evilgrin:
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  5. #5
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    For all those who immediately started screaming and wailing last night when Castro went in for Walker, here's an excerpt from today's Enquirer....


    With Todd Walker due up, Reds manager Bob Boone sent up pinch-hitter Juan Castro. The fact that Castro is hitting .183 and Walker .285 was negated because Walker has struggled bunting, although he does have five sacrifices to Castro's one.

    “We decided last week if we ever got that situation again, we were sending Castro up there,” Boone said, referring to Walker's failure to get a bunt down against Houston's Roy Oswalt on Aug.17.

    Walker might get another try someday because Castro popped up a bunt on the first pitch from Steve Kline.

    “He threw me a slider,” Castro said. “But no excuses. You got to get a bunt down there.”


    Second guessing is fine, but there are ALWAYS reasons behind a managers moves that may or may not be apparent. I could hear a collective wail from the Boone bashers from all corners of the globe last night when he sent Castro up there.

    What a perfect opportunity to lambast him before, during, and after that sad bunt attempt.

    Of course it's his fault that Castro couldn't get the job done. Of course he's an idiot who pulls his lineups out of a hat. Of course all you guys would be a better manager than he is.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  6. #6
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Puffy
    hey RFS62

    I am a little confused - because Boone had a reason that means what?

    Hitler had a reason for exterminatinating the Jews. Stalin had a reason for killing 6 million Russians. Charles Manson had a reason for the Helter Skelter murders.



    Wow.

    I also have a reason for not posting anything about Boone anymore, and up until this thread I had done my best to stick to it. Thanks for reminding me what it was.

    It just occured to me reading the game thread that folks might be able to put aside their hatred of Bob Boone and look at as many factors as possible before passing judgement on that particular move.

    I understand why many don't, though.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  7. #7
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    Agree with you wholeheartedly there GAC! Lay down a bunt, hit to the right side, hit the cutoff man....these are things that you're supposed to know by the time you get to the bigs!

    Maybe because players don't get the fundamental coaching early on, maybe because they are rushed through the minors, maybe because (as you mentioned) it isn't glamorous, a lot of guys that wear big league unis don't seem to know how to do these things! And, if your stratagey relies on someone being able to do the basics but they don't, you're in trouble. And, trying to teach someone to do these things when they are in the majors but didn't learn them in 15 years of baseball at other levels is a very big uphill climb.

    Rem

  8. #8
    Glenn Braggs
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    Reggie Taylor
    .269 BA (Reds team average: .255)
    4 triples
    8 homeruns
    11 stolen bases
    in 197 at bats

    Yes, these are good numbers for a 24th or 25th player on the roster. I don't expect more from a reserve outfielder, especially if he is not a veteran and plays for not much more than the minimum salary. From my knowledge there are few other 4th or 5th outfielders who can hit a homerun or triple at this rate or steal a base.


    You chastize others for "second-guessing" while you use pure speculation in an effort to defend Boone. You have no idea if the players respect him or not.

    No one who hasn't access to the Reds clubhouse will know for sure if Boone is respected or not. But according to reports from the media (articles in the Enquirer and the Post) and from Team Clark, Bob Boone is well or if you like it better seems to be well respected. And looking at LaRue's game and knowing that Bob was a catcher himself for several years I don't see anything wrong with him wanting to improve LaRue's catching skills. Everybody sees how Jason at times has problems at blocking pitches, so Boone doesn't really flame Jason when he just tells it like it is.



    Huh? Other than Taylor, what young players has Boone given a "chance"? Dunn and Kearns? A manager doesn't get credit for no-brainers. And he sure doesn't get credit for putting Reggie Taylor in the lineup. Ick.

    Playing Kearns regulary wasn't always a no-brainer. Since Larson arrived he always found a way to play him as well. Corky Miller and Luke Hudson got their chance, too. As Bob was with the Royals, he also wasn't afraid to give young and unproven players a chance back then even more as he has the chance to do now.

    Ironically, by looking at the lineups and in-game moves, I'd rather doubt that Boone has any comprehension of "how it is".

    That's your opinion. I believe that a man with a Psychology degree from Stanford and a 19 years of ML playing experience behind him knows what he is doing. Somehow the Reds front office seems to think the same as they renewed his contract.


    To make it short; I still think that Boone overall does a good job, despite his share of mistakes. And I still believe that most fans who want to see Boone fired forget that very likely no other manager could do a better job with this team, because the weak points are the players and not that much the manager.

  9. #9
    Glenn Braggs
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    Originally posted by Greenhills Pioneer
    You have got to be joking. This is absurd. Reggie Taylor does not have Juan Encarnacion power.
    By just quoting this years stats, Taylor hits 'em out nearly as good as Encarnacion.

    Encarnacion: 21 Homeruns in 481 at bats (= 22 HR in 500 AB)

    Taylor: 8 Homeruns in 200 at bat (= 20 HR in 500 AB)

  10. #10
    Glenn Braggs
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    Exactly my sentiments, GAC. Great post.

  11. #11
    Glenn Braggs
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    Originally posted by REDJAKE
    How can anyone complain YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!

    Judging people after what they are paid is really sad, if not dumb!

  12. #12
    Glenn Braggs
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    The Reds lose and the Bob Boone "bashing" continues?!

    Shouldn't we rather blame the players, like Reitsma, Moehler, Hamilton, Rijo, Chen, Larkin, Casey, LaRue and others instead of making it easy and putting all the blame on only the manager? It's still the Reds players who don't get the job done on the field.

    What makes a good manager? Good question ... but can someone really give the "right" answer for that? Was Jim Leyland during all the Pirates' losing seasons not a good manager? Can success solely be judged by the winning record, disregarding a low payroll, what kind of players the GM gets you, which injuries occur, which players have bad seasons, etc. etc. And what about Don Gullet? Is he a bad pitching coach because Reitsma, Hamilton, Rijo, Chen and Sullivan struggle? Or where is the difference?

    Was Sparky Anderson such a bad manager during his days with the Tigers? Or had he just a weak team to manage?

    Most of the Boone criticism which I read here is pure second guessing. Wow! After a certain pinch hitter struck out in a close game I could as well easily say: "Hell, why didn't he leave the starting pitcher in instead" or "Why didn't he pinch hit so and so for him". Best example is Reggie Taylor. A lot of posters were against him from the day he was acquired for Hector Mercado. We have enough outfielders, he will struggle ... and so on.

    Now that Reggie has a very good season for the Reds (I think he is currently even among the top five reserve outfielders in the game) all the critics have sudenly silenced. No admittance from someone who blasted Reggie earlier, that he was wrong. I still remember the grand slam Taylor hit or other crucial pinch hits where he won games for the Reds. And this only because Boone knew how valuable he can be to the team and because Bob Boone put him in the lineup when few of the fans here would have.

    As for there constand lineup shuffeling by Boone. Bob Brenly, the Diamondbacks Manager, does the same and his team isn't hurt one bit by it. So why should this have a negative effect? Why is Boone a micromanager for doing this and Brenly a great manager because of it?

    What I like about Bob Boone:

    - He is an intelligent baseball mind (I know that this makes some fans jealous)
    - He has the respect of the players (which is imo very important!)
    - He gives young players a chance
    - He is carefull with his pitchers, not overusing them
    - He doesn't see the game through rose colored glasses. Asked why Stinnett starts more and more instead of LaRue he tells it like it is.
    - He surrounds himself with good baseball people (Lefebvre, Knight), not afraid, that they could take his position.
    - He lets players go through slumps because he knows they belong to the game and therefore gives players confidence and a chance to recover
    - He makes good use of the running game.
    - And yes, he just loves and wants to manage no matter if he is underpaid for it.


    I know that most people who don't like Bob Boone will not listen to any arguments for him anyway, so I will just leave it at that. I think he has done a solid job so far for the Reds and I am very happy to see him back next year.

  13. #13
    Glenn Braggs
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    Originally posted by RedSchmo
    Thunder you cited several managers (Leyland and Anderson included) who went through down years, but are considered great managers. The key here is that they had good years, and great years as well, besides the bad. Boone hasn't had a good year as a manager.

    The difference between Boone and Anderson is, that Sparky was directly handed a great team by the Reds. He only had to let the Big Red Machine play ... the great players made all the difference as you can see when he later took over the Tigers. As I said, I don't think that a manager has that much effect on the outcome of the game. Other managers like Leyland or Bobby Cox also needed their time (and most important a good team) to get to the playoffs. Bob Boone hasn't yet managed long, so I find it unfair to label him as a bad manager solely based on the W-L record of the teams he managed so far.

    I am also the last person to say he is the ultimate and best manager, but I just think that by criticising him over and over again some fans tend to lose out of sight a lot of the problems why the Reds have went from 11 games over to now 4 games under .500.

  14. #14
    Glenn Braggs
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    Mateo
    He comes off a serious leg injury and was brought back slowly – nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I think that getting Ruben started again at AAA and especially getting him regular playing time there benefitted him much more than if he had sat on the Reds bench for most of the time. I see nothing wrong with that, actually it was a good move not to rush Mateo and instead go with Clark and Gonzales as extra outfielders/pinch hitters.

    Aaron Boone
    He is the managers son, but he is also the player with the most RBI and SB's on the team, second most HR's & Runs and third most doubles. Bob's strategy to keep the faith in his son clearly paid off, as he knew that the potential is there. Aaron also belongs to the highest paid players on the team which is another reason to let him play through a slump. To state that Bob wouldn’t have let another third baseman play through a slump is pure speculation and lacks any evidence.

    Overusing the bullpen
    I don’t think the bullpen is that badly overused. It just doesn’t perfom up to its expectations and this can not solely be blamed on their workload. In Sullivan’s case it seems that he has not been the same since being hit by a line drive. He has struggled ever since. White had hurt his foot, Graves is not your supercloser, Rijo has not much left anymore and Riedling and Williamson are brought back slowly and are not overworked. Willy even asked for more pitching time during one period where he felt that he could go more than just one inning per game.

    On the other hand, what other option do you have rather to go to the bullpen when you know (and statistics prove it) that your starters no matter if they are named Dessens, Haynes or Reitsma are knocked around badly if they have to pitch longer than 6 innings? Is it Boone’s fault that they lack stamina and are exhausted when they reach the 90+ pitch count? Well, of course he could leave them in and accept a .300 or worse batting average by the opposition against his starters and just hope for the best … but as the goal is to win games, he does exactly what he is supposed to do, he takes the pitcher out when he becomes uneffective to prevent the oppostition from scoring more runs and to prevent that the starter hurts his arm. Good job by Boone and don't forget that he doesn't have a choice most of the time!

    To Redjake
    You should better decide what you want. When you state “you get what you pay for” why do you expect to see a winning Reds team? Or better, in this case Bob Boone wouldn’t even be factor in the Reds winning or losing games. Because with the Reds having the lowest payroll in the NL Central, shouldn’t they also be supposed to finish last in their division? After your logic they should. As you only get what you pay for then we all should be happy with our overachieving Reds.

    And why was Boone terrible before he came here? Who says this? You? For your info; the Royals still suck and lose ... but I guess it must again be their manager (again) who prevents a good baseball team from winning, right?!

    Or do you solely base your opinion of a manager's abilities on his won-lost record? Then again may I ask if you also thought that Sparky Anderson with the Tigers, Jim Leyland or also Lou Piniella (remember the horrible ’91 season?) were bad managers when they had losing teams? In my opinion managers don’t make that much of a difference when it comes to winning ballgames. It’s just so easy and convinient to put all the blame on them … and combined with the American hire & fire mentality you have in the Reds case 6 managers over the last 11 years, and from year to year not much really has changed. Piniella, Perez, Johnson, Knight, McKeon and Boone. Is it really the managers fault when things don’t go as they are expected? Or do maybe also have payroll limitations, injuries to players etc. have something to do with winning? As even Davey Johnson was apparently not good enough to manage the Reds despite all the success he had I really don’t know what you all expect from a manager. Lou Piniella had a very bad season in ’91 with the Reds after winning the World Series the year before. I wonder if this suddenly made him a bad manager in the eyes of some fans?

  15. #15
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    RedSchmo began this thread with the best idea I've read in some time for a Reds manager. The Reds have only had four top flight managers in the last 40 years: Hutch, Sparky, Lou and Dave Johnson. Most of the rest have been mediocre at best, terrible at worst, so my expectations for Boone's replacement are not high. I kinda like his idea of Jennifer Love Hewitt as manager-it might increase ticket sales so Lindner and Allen will let Bowden acquire some pitching, and her presence should keep the players alert. Hewitt or Bob Boone? Why not love?
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."


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